New players - pick a knight if you aren't a boxer

*Warrior vs Captain Krasnok --- Total Melee --- Damage: 9054246 --- Avg hit: 19987 --- Attempts: 660 --- Riposted: 11/660 [1.67%] --- Parried: 17/649 [2.62%] --- Defended: 28/660 [4.24%] --- Missed: 179/632 [28.32%] --- Hits: 453/660 [68.64%] --- Real Hits: 453/660 [68.64%]

Warrior Vs Anashti T3 --- Total Melee --- Damage: 16609054 --- Avg hit: 24533 --- Attempts: 810 --- Riposted: 12/810 [1.48%] --- Parried: 18/798 [2.26%] --- Defended: 30/810 [3.7%] --- Missed: 98/780 [12.56%] --- Hits: 682/810 [84.2%] --- Absorbed: 5/682 [0.73%] --- Real Hits: 677/810 [83.58%]

Sk Vs Vigor --- Total Melee --- Damage: 9017261 --- Avg hit: 25912 --- Attempts: 446 --- Riposted: 3/446 [0.67%] --- Parried: 8/443 [1.81%] --- Dodged: 11/435 [2.53%] --- Blocked: 15/424 [3.54%] --- Defended: 37/446 [8.3%] --- Missed: 61/409 [14.91%] --- Hits: 348/446 [78.03%] --- Real Hits: 348/446 [78.03%]

Warrior VS Vim --- Total Melee --- Damage: 8087102 --- Avg hit: 23509 --- Attempts: 429 --- Riposted: 4/429 [0.93%] --- Parried: 16/425 [3.76%] --- Dodged: 1/409 [0.24%] --- Blocked: 3/408 [0.74%] --- Defended: 24/429 [5.59%] --- Missed: 51/405 [12.59%] --- Hits: 354/429 [82.52%] --- Absorbed: 10/354 [2.82%] --- Real Hits: 344/429 [80.19%]

*Warrior VS Anasthi Life T1 --- Total Melee --- Damage: 13485750 --- Avg hit: 23092 --- Attempts: 795 --- Riposted: 25/795 [3.14%] --- Parried: 60/770 [7.79%] --- Dodged: 5/710 [0.7%] --- Blocked: 6/705 [0.85%] --- Defended: 96/795 [12.08%] --- Missed: 103/699 [14.74%] --- Hits: 596/795 [74.97%] --- Absorbed: 12/596 [2.01%] --- Real Hits: 584/795 [73.46%]

Sk VS High Bokon T3 --- Total Melee --- Damage: 13912575 --- Avg hit: 25113 --- Attempts: 740 --- Riposted: 15/740 [2.03%] --- Parried: 10/725 [1.38%] --- Dodged: 12/715 [1.68%] --- Blocked: 9/703 [1.28%] --- Defended: 46/740 [6.22%] --- Missed: 123/694 [17.72%] --- Hits: 571/740 [77.16%] --- Absorbed: 17/571 [2.98%] --- Real Hits: 554/740 [74.86%]

Warrior VS High Bokon T3 --- Total Melee --- Damage: 21686891 --- Avg hit: 26708 --- Attempts: 1028 --- Riposted: 10/1028 [0.97%] --- Parried: 41/1018 [4.03%] --- Dodged: 17/977 [1.74%] --- Blocked: 8/960 [0.83%] --- Defended: 76/1028 [7.39%] --- Missed: 128/952 [13.45%] --- Hits: 824/1028 [80.16%] --- Absorbed: 12/824 [1.46%] --- Real Hits: 812/1028 [78.99%]

Warrior VS High Bokon T3 w/death --- Total Melee --- Damage: 15132872 --- Avg hit: 25096 --- Attempts: 742 --- Riposted: 8/742 [1.08%] --- Parried: 22/734 [3%] --- Dodged: 4/712 [0.56%] --- Blocked: 4/708 [0.56%] --- Defended: 38/742 [5.12%] --- Missed: 97/704 [13.78%] --- Hits: 607/742 [81.81%] --- Absorbed: 4/607 [0.66%] --- Real Hits: 603/742 [81.27%]

Warrior VS Anashti T3 --- Total Melee --- Damage: 8743743 --- Avg hit: 24840 --- Attempts: 466 --- Riposted: 11/466 [2.36%] --- Parried: 16/455 [3.52%] --- Defended: 27/466 [5.79%] --- Missed: 79/439 [18%] --- Hits: 360/466 [77.25%] --- Absorbed: 8/360 [2.22%] --- Real Hits: 352/466 [75.54%]

Warrior VS Vim --- Total Melee --- Damage: 7576190 --- Avg hit: 23383 --- Attempts: 401 --- Riposted: 4/401 [1%] --- Parried: 11/397 [2.77%] --- Dodged: 2/386 [0.52%] --- Blocked: 1/384 [0.26%] --- Defended: 18/401 [4.49%] --- Missed: 49/383 [12.79%] --- Hits: 334/401 [83.29%] --- Absorbed: 10/334 [2.99%] --- Real Hits: 324/401 [80.8%]

*Warrior VS Vigor --- Total Melee --- Damage: 6084868 --- Avg hit: 20627 --- Attempts: 398 --- Riposted: 7/398 [1.76%] --- Parried: 30/391 [7.67%] --- Dodged: 5/361 [1.39%] --- Blocked: 2/356 [0.56%] --- Defended: 44/398 [11.06%] --- Missed: 56/354 [15.82%] --- Hits: 298/398 [74.87%] --- Absorbed: 3/298 [1.01%] --- Real Hits: 295/398 [74.12%]

*Warrior VS Akkapan --- Total Melee --- Damage: 21817992 --- Avg hit: 23897 --- Attempts: 1187 --- Riposted: 39/1187 [3.29%] --- Parried: 75/1148 [6.53%] --- Dodged: 4/1073 [0.37%] --- Blocked: 9/1069 [0.84%] --- Defended: 127/1187 [10.7%] --- Missed: 125/1060 [11.79%] --- Hits: 935/1187 [78.77%] --- Absorbed: 22/935 [2.35%] --- Real Hits: 913/1187 [76.92%]

*Warrior VS Captain Krasnok --- Total Melee --- Damage: 23324995 --- Avg hit: 22668 --- Attempts: 1567 --- Riposted: 12/1567 [0.77%] --- Parried: 14/1555 [0.9%] --- Defended: 26/1567 [1.66%] --- Missed: 482/1541 [31.28%] --- Hits: 1059/1567 [67.58%] --- Absorbed: 30/1059 [2.83%] --- Real Hits: 1029/1567 [65.67%]

The asterisk are me .

I don't see anything alarming in those parses did I miss something?

Well you are only looking at part of the picture . Which is the whole "issue". The reason the average hits are lower on the warriors is one disc if you don't see it. See an outside source can't parse someone's healing or self healing so it would take knights posting their own parses to show the actual picture of how well they are changing the damage line.

Is that part, or is that the whole, if you take the sum of everything and look at it, warriors are still tanking better* and that is what it should be. We cannot continue to argue about a single ability here or there, its the accumulation of every thing put together that matters, because no one tanks raid bosses by clicking 1 button, even warriors.

If you feel that part of the picture isn't being stated or brought to light that needs to be, please bring it up and explain it.

Now these parses are just a small showing, and I encourage others to post, including some paladins. If there is a real issue we will be able to see if. Also post from the group game, if that is where you play. give context, what group composition was, if you needed a healer, if singles or ae, etc.

*in the raid game as that is where these parses are from, we can get group ones if we want to go down that avenue

These do not count self healing which is where the problem lies we are almost dead even in mitigation.
But you have a whole nother toolbox to keep yourselves alive that we do not the mitigation is too close.
Without changing the warrior class into a new knight or lowering the mitigation some start at 5% and go from there at least try to fix the issue.

Do you not feel that our discs having hit/proc limits, and only mantle+dp being as good as LS, then the rest being less, and un/holy guardian now is almost a waste, and war ac+hp+stout+fg the rest of the time not a decent trade off for lifetaps/heals that are interrupt-able and have cast times in the raid game?

an example was dracholiche, he was throwing me all around, and I was having to use reprove when thrown to get that bit of mitigation because I couldnt get a lifetap during those times, and that comes at a big risk as well, because its a vie and can take precedence over our main disc.

There are plenty of other examples of flings and stuns and mechanics that render spell casting very very difficult for periods of time.

Also I wont downplay how nice it looks to see myself at the top of my parse list for healing, but the sad thing is, you look at the healers, same casts as on the wars, but less healing, because I took that away from them. Its a mixed bag.

All I'm getting out of it is its not fair you have self healing and trying to make it the focal point of the argument now. But the reality is Warriors benefit from Knight healing when they are tanking also.

No I do not because all the parses above are tanks going from the beginning to the end of each fight.
Stuns, silence, and mezz also affect us doing things too including our discs.
It has been the focal point since page 1 . We just referred to the mitigation stacking of mantle+DP+Cara stacking to too high of mitigation . Sks heal others reliably ? And warpeace when your tanking a boss you heal the warrior?

And I am curious what do you think we stack after last stand because your +++ look a bit off?

Well, other than t3, as my guild is not there so I haven't tanked it so cannot state for or against, none of the others that you posted have any stun or silence that I can remember. Mez/charm doesn't matter because your not tanking or casting during those and not getting hit either. DP+ mantle or DP + carapace, they don't all 3 stack. Go ask your healers if they stop casting heals on sk/pal when they start tanking?

SK heals others in a couple different ways, we have a proc chance with terrors, we have our bite lines, our epic hits others. I believe warpeace was meaning that wars get paladins healing them while wars are tanking.

The difference is night and day, and you know it....

In parses, how do you know what discs are being ran, or abilities used? Or what the group make up is. I see one SK who tanks 5x better then another with same gear and same aa's because they are much more skilled, how is that translated into parsing?

Ok I get it everytime I bring up self healing I am going to get two arguments #1 oh we get stun silenced and whatever - Count the npcs that do this in the expansion there might be 3 so you can't tank 3 mobs as well as the rest and have to depend on your healers get over it argument defeated

#2 Well we heal you while you are tanking - well you chose this class with the outside the archetype roles what did you expect ? And you focus very little on healing the maintank while there are other things going on which happens in about 90% of this expansion and the one before it and the one before that .
The time when self healing matters is when you are tanking and when you mitigate just as good as us self healing pushes you leaps and bounds ahead of us when we was designed to have the smoothest damage line which is no longer true because of the mitigation gain you received along with the the self healing you have received since day 1 of the game .

Now if they wanna nerf all your self healing over mitigation sure whatever makes us take the smoothest damage line again.They could also give us passive self healing to not change our class into a knight but they would need to build aas and junk to go with this.Or they sorry I mean he can just lower the cookie he gave you by a % until it fixes this damage line.

Parses aren't going to amount to squat when it comes to real information, its just something knights are doing to divert attention.

If you can't just use your brain, and go ok, they copy/pasted warriors stances onto knights, and knights kept all their previous abilities, if you can't deduce what that means, all the parses in the universe aren't going to help you.

Of course knights are super over powered, relative to warriors now. Its not going to get fixed. And if people post 100gigs of parses its not going to matter.

That is why you give examples from multiple different ones so that you can do those kind of comparisons.

You look at spells casted.

As mitigation is needed for the hardest content, the value of self healing devalues because it cannot save you from the hardest hits. The inverse is true as well, against trivial self healing becomes OP where mitigation wont save you from a lack of heals. It is the fine balance in the middle that is trying to be found, and is very difficult to do with %based vs fixed amounts.

Self healing does not devalue unless you are one rounded. The rest of the time self healing counts as absorb smoothing out the damage line.

Where the heck are the math wizards that shut this crap down in the past ?

Being 1 rounded is exactly the point of the hardest hitting. I am not currently in max TBM gear, so I can get round easily in between discs or when all my discs are down. Good luck disproving being 1 rounded doesn't devalue healing

Where the heck are the meme wizards to at least make this interesting. One of Judge Smails comes to mind.

Sheex is slacking today