New players - pick a knight if you aren't a boxer

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Time Burner 2, Feb 18, 2016.

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  1. Repthor Augur

    we did raid this week and used our Paladins and Shadowknights to tank all the events we dident need them for other jobs in the events all the way and includeing enslaver. they one tanked everything except enslaver becoz of the surpise fix to the enslaver encounter

    now me and kamea are not in the same guilds but that shouldent matter as its the same content
  2. Buds Augur

    That's perfect, just what it should be. A pally or SK should be able to tank everything. My question was, if you had your choice of a tank, for a tough encounter, what would you pick? I'm sure every top guild would choose their best warrior still, so I don't an issue.
  3. Repthor Augur

    right now ? either cuz of self healing helps alot for knights like i said a knight adds 2-3 mil hp to their own hp thats a great value when u break in to a new event. not to say temprary hp of 45k dosent have merit its very strong when its active but its short term and less value all together becoz when its fades its zero benefit. so right now there no benefit to bring a warrior over a paladin or sk in new content with the changes . and im fine with that. but the less challengeing the content becomes the stronger the Paladins and Shadowknights self healign becomes and the further ahead they get. I whould argue that self healing is a bit to strong over all but in high end content its less value when in group content

    now like i said b4 in group content its a diffrent story paladins and sks are heads and tails above warriors in total tank package (not mitigation mind you but in TOTAL package aka Mitigation and self healing) and thats where the issue imo is right now and thats unfair and needs to get fixed and needs to get fixed asap and thats not an easy fix cuz both the other tank classes have a meryid of aas and passive and active effects that all together add up to your strong self healing
  4. Arwenn New Member

    Well I see it as war best in raid, but all can do it now. Knight best in group, but all can do it now.

    I see this as a win win for both. Unless you consider same time to gear and level, but more time to AA for knights is an injustice and they shouldn't ever be the best at something, then well, guess I cant argue with that
  5. Brohg Augur

    What if the magic number is 1? Because that's the number warriors can't kill without a healer
    Time Burner 2 likes this.
  6. Xanathol Augur

    I would agree that the tank vs dpser dps gap has grown too large, just as mitigation has fallen behind for dpsers thanks to abilities like DP. The problem they have now is that content is tuned for it and there's no way they are going to redo the content to pull DP from the game. As such, I doubt they push tanks any closer to dpsers. If they do, that would be great, as long as SK dps is significantly ahead of Warrior dps as it should be - we don't need another Elidroth-like screw up that was Warrior only stances. SKs are still the only tank class without a disc to increase melee crits & cripples (Pallies have the holy forge line) and still have Carmine Rage adding 68% haste instead of a HHE like Valrous Rage does... but dps tank, right?

    Anyhow, back to the topic. IMO, as long as DP et al is in, Knight DP should be lowered 5, maybe 10% at most, and toss Warriors a bone, maybe even another innate 5% to their existing one.
  7. Brohg Augur

    Must get lonely out there trying to chant "dps tank" enough to make folks think that's a thing.
  8. Warpeace Augur

    While I might agree with reducing Knight mitigation a bit from this latest change I could not support increasing Warrior mitigation at all. That's what got us to this point in the first place and its not just about tanks its content tuning. Give Warriors another boost and you screw over Melee even more.

    What they need is utility and to stop being one dimensional.
    Time Burner 2 and Ghubuk like this.
  9. p2aa Augur

    Your large advantage that you keep listing over and over doesn't exist at all today, only in your dreams.
  10. p2aa Augur

    That's nowhere where it should be. It should require more healing to keep knights alive versus warriors, and it's not. Warrior should be able to tank Raid Bosses better, and it's not the case here from what Repthor tells us.
    Honestly, all knights won't be able to MT Raid Boss like Repthor describes it, most importantly because of a skill question. But still this is not right for me.
    A top skilled warrior should still have an advantage on a top skilled knight on Raid Boss, and it seems to not be the case anymore, at least in top high end raid guilds.

    Warrior strength was to be unmatched against Raid Bosses. It doesn't seem to be the case anymore. Raid add, warriors and knights now can tank them, this part is right it was wrong that knights couldn't tank some raid adds. But Raid Boss tanking equal MT is wrong for me. Warrior is not best in raid if Knights can tank all they do equally. Because knights have more utility for paladin, more dps for SK, than warriors. But mostly because I chose the warrior class to have the best mitigation against raid bosses and brutal mobs in the game; not to have hybrid class being able to do the same.
  11. Kamea Augur

    They need more healing, but can provide more healing. And have much better heal effectiveness buffs than wars, mind you.

    People like to pretend pal healers don't exist outside of self healing and group healing through AE's.

    Thing is, pals "could" heal other tanks very well, they just chose not to. In my years of EQ, I've only met 1 pro pal healer (aka on par with a good cleric skill wise.)

    Answer: 10 pals all focused on healing each other when not tanking.
  12. Seldom Augur

    /Yawn, sounds like some more Warrior fairy tales with no logic or numbers. Let me know when your guild, the 5th game wide to complete the current expansion, has more than two shadowknights and three paladins on roster. Know that must be hard to get to a higher number when your guild chooses to stack roster with 9 warriors instead Kamea and closes recruitment on the supposedly overpowered tank classes. I will be looking forward to these Kamea the Raid Leader Tales of gathering 10 paladins to heal each other when your actual real raids are stacking Warriors for obvious reasons.
  13. Mistatk Augur

    /yawn. "Seldom" your argument that current guild rosters reflect a major change, that only went into effect a week ago is invalid. Clerics are just as unique and irreplaceable as warriors WERE, because that is how the game was designed and has always been. If you want to give shamans and druids the same heals as clerics, and let them keep everything else they have, great. Copy/paste of warrior stances, to knights, = no balance. This is really a ridiculous argument, that i'm trying not to be a part of anymore. Giving knights copy/paste of warrior stances was as well thought out as releasing TBM completely untested and broken, after making a podcast saying you would never release something untested and broken just to make a deadline. Nuff said.
  14. Battleaxe Augur

    /Yawn. Sounds like Ye Olde Razzle Dazzle - defying truth and logic.

    Let me know when hybrid classes that choose less tanking and more outside of the tank archetype capabilities don't get:

    a. The ability to tank for all practical purposes all group content. Tank parity (and knight spellbook superiority) in group content.


    b. Regular tanking and non-tanking related duties in raids as attending to those responsibiities line up with tanking and not tanking capabilities of the said knight classes.

    Now the guild I am in has been using knights in an event that calls for (given one approach - there may be other approaches) a long tank lineup. Knights arre tanking.

    In other events the challenge is add control. Guess what? Knights do the heavy add control lifting in those events.

    In others it's mini boses. Knights get called upon.

    And then there's Splash, spot healing, ramp tanking, and Old Man McKensie res sticking (beats the heck out of memming Res and having it become usable or worse keeping it up in one's spellbar).

    4ish Warriors
    3ish SK's
    3ish Pallies

    And not AFAIK any whinny Warrior asking why knights are "allowed" to tank "Warrior" mobs nor even one whinny knight pointing out that Paladins, SK's and Rangers are "warriors" and ought to be allowed to tank boss mobs when we are learning events while getting their utility for free.

    IF you want to be the best tank (only meaningful in raids - thanks for breaking faith with group Warriors SOE) ) play a Warrior.

    IF you do not you have chosen to give up some tanking for some outside the tank archetype utility which may or may not heterodyne with tanking. IF you like this mainly group friendly utility which stil allows you tank parity in group content and in most events a tanking role in raids - chose a knight.

    Want numbers? Hey Cleric I'm about to hand Fred a Healing Potion (a Warrior Heal). How about a DArb? Hey Fred, nice heal OTW - who needs a Cleric? (<- Pally).

    Here's a number- 0 - the legitimacy of the wannabeaWarrior and get a free high quality spellbook (vs. a Warrior's hoidge podge of tank related abilities) argument. You don't want to be an Enchanter, don't roll one.
  15. Buds Augur

    Utility or not, when it comes to tanking, the only thing that matters is survival. If warriors are the only class that can tank a raid boss, that's messed up. The tanking right now I think is perfect. Warriors are still the first tank choice, no question. Pallies and SKs can tank also, but not quite as much room for error. If warriors want more utility, then ask for it, but can't have content built around one class that was massively superior in tanking. Warriors are losing nothing, the game is better now and makes way more sense. Don't just be jealous, that's why this game gets so screwed up and nerfed left and right.
  16. shiftie Augur

    you do realize that we get this as an aa? 90% rez with aa to hasten it and quicken it? I mean since you play a paladin alt and are so well versed on our abilities surely you'd have noticed these aa that got added into the game since OMM rez stick was added.

    rez on a spell bar lololololololololol
  17. Seldom Augur

    Claiming "that's how things have always been" doesn't make it a valid argument, especially when things have never "always" remotely been how they were or are. Throughout most of EQ history, Warriors were never the kings of snap aggro, single target or AE(Hint: they are currently, especially in comparison to Paladins). To compare the tank to the healer arch type is also another fairly poor example. Just as a full raid that's attempting to maximize efficiency would be extremely unwise too have zero clerics in a raid of 54, it would be unwise to not want at the least 4 Shamans for most raid formats. The loss of "purposely" going without them would be TREMENDOUS. The reason guilds such as Kamea's stacks warriors and "purposely" keeps knight count low is because there is no "tremendous" draw back in doing so. That's what happens when you give a tank the most HP by a gigantic margin(hint: Warriors did not for most of EQ's lifespan have multiple things that gave them a GIGANTIC hit point advantage) when they stack abilities, the best snap aggro single and AE, combined with the best mitigation. Just as you saw zero top end guilds stacking a bunch of knights prior to patch and "purposely" foregoing wars, you will see zero top end guilds stacking rosters with knights after patch.
  18. sojero One hit wonder

    LOL have you looked at druid and shm heals? they are around 90% of what a clerics is, and oh guess what, they bring other stuff to the table too. The one thing the cleric has that the others dont is DI and some faster cast heals, but shm has fast cast and druid have the big ones. They can do quite well on heal parses when not doing other duties too. Guess what, war is still 10% or so better tank than knight, they are just leveling the playing field.
  19. Mistatk Augur

    The core of this argument from the knights perspective is: Yeah for 15 years warriors had the most mitigation, and knights had less, but also got spell books. But, now were going to get the same mitigation and have our spell books, don't be jealous bro, its a new era. I don't know what logic you could argue against whether or not its a new era of EQ where knights get all the mitigation of warriors plus their spell books, except to say, apparently it is. That does not make it good for the game, balanced, or anything else. People who rolled warriors did so based on the format of the last 15 years of EQ, the thing you read when you create a character that tells you what each class is good at. To say, well its a new day get over it bro, isn't really a logical argument as much as just a statement. Apparently from the knights perspective, EQ in its hayday and most popular was broken and unbalanced, and now in its sunset DBG has taken it over and fixed it and made it into the game it should have been 15 years ago. Really? lol. Thank goodness after 15 years of warriors being the primary raid tank, DBG has come and corrected things to make it so that knights mitigate equally to warriors, too bad they didn't get here 15 years ago.
  20. Buds Augur

    If they could go back 15 years ago, they would take out warriors and clerics out of the game. Boom instant easy balance. EQ raiding is all about doing one thing the best. If you can't, you will get passed for someone who can. If a tank can't tank, what good are they?? Warriors need another niche besides tanking the best. What good is my SKs spell book on a raid?? Really, I mean some dots and lifetap that barely dents light blue exp mobs?? Come on, I need to be able to tank with the best or I have nothing to do. These changes were amazing for so many people. Warriors are still exactly the same as they were last month. They didn't lose anything. Still the best tanks and that's all that matters.
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