New players - pick a knight if you aren't a boxer

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Time Burner 2, Feb 18, 2016.

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  1. Linden Augur

    Absolutely we needed better ability to tank. Stop trying to get our class nerfed.
  2. Brohg Augur

    Marginalizing LS is (or would be, since we have no way to check dev intention if it's not posted) an admirable goal. It's been a problem since Kunark. As a problem, though, it's had knock-on consequences, and those haven't been concurrently addressed. That lack is what spawned this thread.
  3. Mistatk Augur

    IF, I understand what your saying correctly. All three tank class need a strong baseline tanking ability (mitigation, AC/HP etc)- and then on top of that you add on what ever you want the variations to be. What we have here though is a situation where two of the tank classes weren't given a stable enough base, but then were given a ton of extra abilities. No matter how you slice it, whatever rhetoric, whatever scams, if you now do nothing except raise that baseline on the two tank classes with all the extra abilities, and do nothing to the one tank class that had nothing extra just its baseline mitigation, you now create an imbalance.

    I didn't design the concept for this game. I don't get any share of the profits from this game. I'm happy just to reroll at this point, or quit or whatever the case may be. Anyone like abzagaroth who is going around saying paladins should have all their heals, and buffs and stuns and so on and so forth and mitigate the same as warriors, is simply not being honest. And judging by this forum, about 90% of the people either don't care about any class except the one they play, or have an agenda. Thanks to all the honest people who say, knights needed a boost, but this was probably over blown. And to the people who say, if all three tank class are going to tank the same, warriors need a different role to fill in the game.

    As it stands right now it is completely unbalanced, and all the people arguing that point are simply either deluded or liars. If there is going to be a Healer-Tank, a Necro-Tank, and then a third tank class (formerly warrior, the pure tank, tank) you can't just go and change the game to where that third class gets left in the dust. I mean you can, it just doesn't make any sense and makes all the people who were playing that class really angry and then they gotta play less or whatever.

    Taking a class people have been playing for 15 years and just breaking it, is just not right. And its really disheartening to see all the people who argue it just for their personal gain. Nobody is going to pick a tank that only tanks as well as a tank who can also heal, it just doesn't make any sense, that isn't what the game was designed to be, and its not whats its been for the last 15 years.
  4. Warpeace Augur

    Honestly you just answered it with

    The problem is they went overboard with Warriors getting 30% DP and then tuned content around it. Like you said there is basically no way Daybreak will go back and retune all that content just to remove it from the game. If they did retune the game they could completely remove the 30 DP and probably remove the 5% knights received on top of that giving Warriors that 5% edge.
  5. p2aa Augur

    If after this overtuned def prof you are raid geared and not able to step up MT raid bosses reliably, then play your class better.
    You should not have received the same % def proficiency than warrior.
  6. p2aa Augur

    No way you can remove DP and 5% knight stuff and be done with it. You would be back to a tanking balance in favor of knight, with only 9 % difference between the 2 defensive tank disc. A situation who was only pleasing knights and not warriors at all.
  7. Warpeace Augur

    5% just not enough for you without disk and 9% under Disk? Your idea of balance is not having any reasonable balance and all in favor of Warriors.

    Complaining like that removes any sympathy most will possibly feel for Warriors when 5-9% isn't a big enough advantage without being greedy.

    You already stated you wanted another bump of 30% more to DP for warriors in a different thread totaling 60 full time mitigation. Balanced...not a chance and to top it off you replied you were not joking.
  8. p2aa Augur

    First, I never stated i wanted 30 % more added to our DP.
    Secondly, this time you described happened yet a few years ago before DP was added.
    Enceladus guild (I think it was this one) warrior class leader was saying Knights were being used to replace warriors MT Bosses and they were recruiting knights over warriors.
    DP has been added to warriors to allow them to be more than one trick pony of tanking 3 min, and to allow warriors to be better than knights during the time the defensive discs are down.
  9. Kamea Augur

    [Citation Needed]

    Your speed from theory to assertion is incredible.

    Shiftie the reason why all your posts about how "LS is bad game design" suck, is because DP unintentionally gave knights a version of LS with DP + Mantle-> Armor stacking. You hate LS, but think knights should have it anyways. Logic.

    Your conspiracy theory is laughable too. Elidroth highly tuned stances to warrior needs, I really don't think you know how sucky stances 1.0 were, all the stance adjusts/buffs 6 months in were needed (and frankly weren't enough) although the 30% DP was too much. But, this notion he purposefully intended 2 years ago to give knights an untuned carbon copy later on is laughable (while changing nothing about knights otherwise,100% unlike Elidroth.) I could guarantee you that he'd nerf Mantle/Armor stacking ASAP.


    I thought Battleblade was going to lose this thread. Then Yimin came in. Then Shiftie decided to go into tinfoilhatville. You're quickly pulling ahead man.
  10. Vdidar Augur

    This thread is pretty worthless at this point.
  11. Mistatk Augur

    To me, its not so much about that 5-9%. Its that most of the warrior secondary abilities are a joke, and they weren't really worked on or fixed, because we had this defensive stance. Yeah, Knights had their stuff and warriors stuff was broken, but we had the stance and they didn't. Now they got the stance and we still got all the broken abilities.

    Here is some examples. Warlords Resurgence, they give us something like monks get mend, but then they cap it at a 20k heal and 450hp a tick for 12 ticks. What is that? your tanking Xmillion points of damage and your using that? for what? its worthless, if it was 10x the size it would give warriors a secondary ability similar to how knights can heal themself. Another one. Warrior's bulwark, lvl 104 rk3 self vie, ends after 100k hp absorbed and long reuse, its a joke.

    Brace for impact one of the best warrior ones, they went through not long back and nerfed it down. Wow nerf our best thing? ok but we still got our defensive stance to fall back on even though all our secondary "spells" and "abilities are broken. So now all of a sudden you yank out the, "atleast we have the stances" and now we just got squat.

    So, its not really about staying a huge gap ahead of knights on mitigation, its the fact that was all we had going for us and now we don't. That is why people are frustrated, alot has been chalked up to the fact we have had these stances for a few years. I don't think any warrior wants knights to tank badly, or is looking for sympathy, but this is just flat out unbalanced and unfair.

    So great, all warrior can go reroll knights and one less class in the game, who cares. Well how many times that gotta happen before the game gets real boring and real old for the people still playing it. Instead of killing off warriors, they could have fixed all the broken warrior abilities, upped the amounts on a bunch of em, instead they were nerfing warrior abilities and putting in knights stances behind the scenes.
  12. Seldom Augur

    Kamea; We can all play the retired developer, would nerf this or that game. I personally feel, Elidroth, would have prevented Dichotomic Shielding 40% threshold rune + 25% HP boost stacking with Last Stand/Shield Stance "ASAP", before he concerned himself about Shield Stance + Vie stackability.
  13. Kobrah Augur

    Was there this kind of uproar from the knights when wars got a permanent 30% mitigation stance ? Anyone have a link to a thread with 50 some pages of b**ching and moaning ?
  14. Kamea Augur

    When we got it, it was a 15% upgrade from what we had before.

    Elidroth intended Warrior's Bulwark line stacking (80% high threshold vie buff) with LS and promised he'd fix the broken damage limit but never did, so it still has a broken damage limit.

    Most warrior's don't stack Dich with LS, I only do it if it's a 'semi wipe' and just need to hold the mob for a minute while other warriors get ready. Anyways, I don't care if it's turned into a disc window disc, but if things stay as they are with knights it'd need to be upped to 2 mins to match armor for me to be happy.

    Before you get ahead of yourself keep in mind it lasts for 54s with a 50% LS+Innate5 (it dilutes shining, so can't include the full 10% of that, but I'm not sure about how it interacts with PDH), while the 70% DP+Mantle+innate5 lasts for 60s.

    Also keep in mind we paid for Dich with a Brace for Impact nerf, when we essentially had another 5% absorb advantage until we died.
  15. shik Elder

    this thread was born worthless and it'll die worthless!
  16. Vdidar Augur

    The Warriors got slighted. Good for them after the Daegun crusade. Now we have 40 pages of facts which the Warriors are probably right and a whole bunch of Paladins and sk skewing facts to try to keep an op boost. It's all just crap in between that anyone who reads has to filter now.
  17. Abazzagorath Augur

    There wasn't. Because 99% of us don't care about what warriors do or do not have.

    We just all the sudden wondered W T F happened to our tanking all the sudden after we started getting steamrolled on raids the past few years. Unfortunately, with so many people quitting or going into play maintenance mode (we log on for raids, log on with new content to know it out then go back to logging on for raids) due to an aging population, there aren't streams of parsers and people interesting in things outside their own issues now adays.

    I know I, personally, didn't go parse anything. I just started getting steamrolled way more often, at the same time warriors got new things that made them overpowered. I simply assumed warrior proficiencies would be nerfed. It was an apparent problem to anyone. I didn't really think the content was too out of whack, I don't mind dying a lot, but then I'm always end game geared too (again, I don't have time to worry about groupers at this point in my life, not marginalizing them, I just don't care either way). So I chalked it up to "stuff is harder" and "warriors are waiting for the inevitable nerf bat that is just taking longer than it used to due to lack of developer time".

    Then this comes along.

    I didn't quite get just how OP the warriors were until I saw for myself what they had.

    But then, that is why I have said - over and over - that knights shouldn't have gotten DP. Warriors should have had theirs removed or nerfed to something MUCH less (5% + lesser block mod wouldn't be untenable).

    What is untenable is warriors coming on here acting like the sky is fallen because they are no longer ridiculously overpowered relative to knights (but they are just as overpowered as always versus content). They (the ones whining in this thread) don't care about balance, they care about keeping knights at the kiddie table for some bizarre reason.

    I bet most warriors really don't care either, only a few are posting here after all.

    What amazes me is the couple of warriors saying, basically, that if knights tank close enough to warriors, why play warriors because warriors don't have relative solo/group utility, but instead of ASKING for that utility/flavor, they want to turn knights into rangers or something with regards to tanking. Absurd.
  18. Battleaxe Augur

    Why would Warriors, who rolled their character to be the best tank and have unmatched suvivability vs. the most brutal mobs, want to "trade" tanking advantage for utility we could have had (by rolling a knight) but refused when we created our characters?

    Best Tank
    tank with outside of the Tank Archetype abilities

    Read the class descriptions. It's clearly SK's who don't have and aren't requesting enough of the outside of the Tank Archetype stat debuffs, detrimentals, DoTs, and disease nukes highlighted in their class description. And by giving then such abilties there'd be a reason to include them in raids just as curing/healing provides spots for Clerics with Swords and DPS creates spots for "warriors attuned to nature".
  19. Ghubuk Augur

    Best can be .1 percent better, 1 percent better, 10 percent better. It is up to the developers to decide how much that "better" is. Prior to knights getting dp though, it was far to large a gap. Whether or not, it is now where they want it, will be the developer's determination.
  20. Zalamyr Augur

    While I agree with the sentiment, let's be realistic here. They aren't going to add meaningful utility to the class no matter how good of ideas get presented. They just aren't. It would be *way* outside their usual pattern of dealing with balance issues to do so. I would literally be stunned if it happened.
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