Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Time Burner 2, Feb 18, 2016.
Except that warriors will have staunch stance buffed on them as well during raids.
And Reavers Bargain does not stack with DP.
K, I know the point of confusion now. To be clear, I've always been talking about full burns, ie any tank getting in a good burn, just while in a tank group. It'd be unfair to compare one side having an advantage over the other, and I wasn't.
There is nothing about being a war that makes it particularly more dangerous to use burns while waiting to tank vs a knight. Even if you're slow dropping disc, FOA will buy you time (it doesn't need disc window.) You just need to be sure to click Vehement Rage (healing effectiveness penalty) off. The one exception is Offensive Disc. Offensive disc locks out your LS timer, and its penalty is so strong it can get you one rounded from AE ramp (I speak from experience), despite 1-rounding for actual tanking being rare these days. But offensive isn't needed in 60s burns and is a very marginal upgrade on longer events anyways -- it's generally a broken disc.
I'm no expert on knight spell sets, but wouldn't knights ideal DPS spell set differ from their ideal tanking spell set? 'If' that's the case, that'd be a lot more to deal with anything wars need to do.
I was saying the way devs designed the stackability (or rather, lack thereof) of our DPS-oriented buff AA's is 'utter crap.' The way paladin DPS buffs were designed is vastly superior for realistic raiding conditions.
When I see a top war parse on a given event, it's heavily RNG dependent. It just happens every time I see these lucky big parses, there's a knight(s) that happens to blow it away (aka comparing peak warrior DPS to 'any given go' knight DPS.) These days, I'm talking about a 30-40% knight advantage on TBM burns.
Maybe people in this thread think dummy parses is what happens vs real mobs with real mitigation, idk.
Knight staunch is self only.
We speak of self tool comparison only that benefits each class and that the other class doesn't have.
Except that if you only count self-tools, you aren't getting a proper picture of tanking ability on raids because you will have much more than self-tools assisting.
If you are comparing the tanks, you have to look at what will be available to them from all sources. This is part of the reason why there was such a large tanking discrepancy because knights tend to gain a much smaller benefit from a lot of buffs but people want to just look at it as if they only have self-buffs available.
Yay, and so ? It's a free warrior defensive disc for 2 min time
Yes, that's right, I didn't count the HP resplenish tools you have that is 1000 x better than ours.
No matter how you want to slice it, we have no bigger advantage than you if you take into account other stuff.
But at least SK absorb abilities have limits tuned to modern EQ.
[49544/49543] Reaver's Bargain II
Duration: 2.5m (25 ticks), Extendable: No, Dispelable: No
2: Absorb Damage using Mana: 1%
3: Increase Max Negative HP by 50000
4: Absorb Melee Damage: 75% over 25000, Total: 1500000
5: Cast: Reaver's Exhaustion once if Type 49545
(Yes, I realize this probably never reaches the limit, but certainly more than 105k hp.)
 Warrior's Bulwark Effect III
Duration: 2m (20 ticks), Extendable: Yes, Dispelable: Yes
2: Absorb Melee Damage: 80% over 19000, Total: 105938
Text: Your armor shimmers with radiance.
[43288/43286] Repellence III
Duration: 6s (1 ticks), Extendable: Yes, Dispelable: Yes
Max Hits: 3 Incoming Hit Successes
9: Absorb Melee Damage: 90%, Total: 35592
[43038/15606] Insult Recourse III
Duration: 12s (2 ticks) Song, Extendable: Yes, Dispelable: Yes
Max Hits: 2 Incoming Hit Successes
3: Absorb Melee Damage: 50%, Total: 9705
Reaver's Bargain may be powerful but it comes with a huge penalty at the end of it. On a lesser note, our 36 percent mitigation aa also came with a penalty that lowered our dps which of course lowers our self-healing ability, therefore it ended up not being 36 percent relative gain.
The reality is that we needed help in the tanking department for raids, we were getting our butts handed to us far too often unless in the very top end guilds once they were towards the end of their particular expansion cycle.
But according to Abazzagorath, knight self healing is irrelevant on raids since what actually kills tanks is being 1-rounded.
It is actually mostly irrelevant on raids for sk's because we cant control when innate self healing will go off or for how much and channelling lifetaps while tanking raid named is not reliable at all.
just wanna point out for the dicussion that as far as growth and stance goes amongst warriors and paladins/shadowknights theres a diffrence
Warriors gets buffed by this :
43745 Ferocious Growth Rk. III 102 Single 8: Increase Max HP by 15596 (Decaying to 6212 @ 391/tick)
Shadowknights and Paladins self buff themself with this
43291 Staunch Stance Rk. III 104 Self 8: Increase Max HP by 17987 (Decaying to 5699 @ 512/tick)
so no we do not revice the same buff, theres some distinc advanatges and disadvantages but regardless the buffs are vastly diffrent for better or worse
I don't think the word "vastly" is the word you wanted to use.
By the by. Only bad knights load the self version on raids. Knowing a buffing class can cast it on you frees up the spell gem better used for other spells.
The knight version locks out a spell gem for 2.5 minutes. The recast on the priest version... 75 seconds.
Warriors get the buff and don't have to maintain it, someone else is doing that for you. Knights generally have to manage it our self meaning we have to watch the timer to reapply it and cast through being beaten on. So for 2k less HP yes your not getting the exact same buff but you sure don't have to put any effort in receiving or maintaining the benefits its another class putting in the support work in for you just like healing of a Warrior.
Really anyone could complain about getting a lesser version but guess that's the bonus for having to dedicate a spell gem to it and have to self manage the buff. Keep in mind the limited number of spell gems anyone with a mana bar has vs the limits of hot keys and hot bars for Warriors.
Both Staunch Stance and Ferocious growth basically say we lack the HP to do our intended job and to provide a window for damage spikes to kill you as a tank.
no vastly is the word i wanted
adjective, vaster, vastest.
of very great area or extent; immense:
the vast reaches of outer space.
of very great size or proportions; huge; enormous:
2k hp is vast? Lol
look mom shiftie posted below my post. ooh you dont care , ok nvm then
Unimportent? What does that mean?
No wonder warriors think knights are so good. They don't comprehend things like 2k hp and 200 per tic degradation are not "vastly" different. Mildly different, slightly different mostly the same thing. Verily the similarities are so minute one can hardly see the difference in game.
I'm very pleased to read that Warriors are finally starting to be honest in this thread and admit the importance of hit points for a tank. Being able to hit Warlord's Tenacity and acquire 45,000 more hit points is ULTRA vast. Being able to hit Dichotomic Shielding and add another 45,000 hit points on top of that (if you don't decide to spread them out) is BEYOND ultra vast. Combined with Warriors large innate HP advantage and % based HP boosts such as cleric aura and talk about sturdiness. Wait, all that stuff that a War can't share, stacks with Paladin Inquisitor, first spire and our heals?!?! Must be nice to become Waradins when in vacanity of Paladins. Seems unfair a Warrior can't share any of their most powerful abilities... I clearly see why the top end guilds have more Warriors than Paladins and Shadowknights combined! FYI: to any "new" players thinking of rolling a tank, Warriors at top end can buff out to over 100,000 more hit points than the other tanks. Very powerful edge, especially during the most brutal of battles
Separate names with a comma.