New players - pick a knight if you aren't a boxer

I did no such thing.

Are you suggesting that the vaule of doing extra damage to undead is 0?

When comparing paladin dps and warrior dps, you put 0 value to the fact that the paladin excels vs. any undead mob?

If you putting a value greater then 0 on doing extra dps vs undead, how much is that worth vs. a warrior who cannot do that at all?

apples and oranges, and you didn't propose any groups. I can manipulate anything I want too Sir you really should just give up, your doing yourself nor your class any services here.

Why are sojero,warpeace, ravengloom,shiftie etc, glossing over my statement about db vs di when talking,, mitigation does x amount vs y amount of self healing?

I'm certain if it was wrong it would have been picked apart every way possible by now, with references of how i don't understand why knights get much better ratio weapons then warriors.

is the post i cited incorrect of how mitigation works? if the db is set (and large on some raid boss) and your mitigation is only affecting the DI portion of damage, isn't that a huge arguement in favor of runes and self healing?

if the db is 10k, and your taking that damage either way, wouldn't self healing be alot more valuable then mitigation? (which wouldnt affect that portion of the damage).

Also, why are paladins acting like they spend every moment just MT boss mob, and can never back out to cast a few heals, buffs, splashes, resses. Most events, have stages, and waves, and tank swaps, paladin isn't just locked into combat every moment from start to finish of event, if they couldn't cast during events, then splash wouldn't even be a highly desired skill because they would be unable to do it.

But, I know. All knights except yi min and ravengloom, already said dp was way overblown for knights.

Then developers had to just throw in knights sedulity too, just to show, hey were taking every last possible advantage away from warriors now. Innate 1DI shift? Innate nothing warriors. Oh and every paladin says its wrong how they can stack stuff on dp, but guaranteed they are still doing it, so is stuff then get tuned based on their currently "broken" stacking of a "overpowered" thing. sad.

also, youll notice i refrence paladins, not sk. Thats because sk are never invited to raid "cuz they can help heal" or for splashing, or for armor of the inquisitor.

paladins seem a ton OP comapred to sk, so thats why I mention them. Do i want any knights not to be able to tank? of course not, they are tanks. But if your going to be able to nuke, heal, splash, buff, etc etc etc then warriors must have some equally powerful abilities OR tank better. Otherwise, as the OP says, it makes warriors completely obsolete and broken. Why paladins repel style ability (roget name, agro plus 5hit 90% vie) why would paladins be a ton stronger then warriors on top every other advantage. If warrior had advantage on all the small stuff, and dps, but paladins can tank as well and heal, that would be one thing. But paladin have all advantages, accross the board, of every aspect.

The discussion here isn't whether or not you get rounded but whether or not an SK can reliably heal one's self to prevent 2 rounds from killing them. Triconix has painted the picture as if SKs can heal themselves adequately between every combat round and thus offer the same value as a Warrior mitigating that damage away and never having to heal it all, and that is just not the case. In fact, the entire notion of healers healing you adequately after every round negates the need for any self healing altogether. If that is the case, then all that is left is whether or not you can get rounded and self healing will never assist in that - only mitigation will.

In other words, this is all a stupid tangent to distract from the false claim that SKs healing is as valuable as Warrior mitigation. Never taking damage on challenging content is always more valuable - they are not equal.

k, lemme find my original post, i was certain i specified the classes.

Also, what you think is more likely, paladin gonna get thrown in to heal a dps setup group, or warrior mt is gonna be with adps support.

So. In a group with druid aura, ench aura, bard proc songs, what you think happens when knights throw out a couple fast cast spam nukes. Oh, lets say their running hedgewizard brew also, just cuz why wouldn't they be.
Remember that knights get AA's to amplify any nuke or heal they cast too, or proc.

What you think bard fierce eye and ench illusions of grandeur can do, chromatic haze.

Warrior can not cast any spells period.

Yes it is, you have the ability to heal the 15k damage difference between each round. between epic, bite, anguish bp, spells, and all your other tools, you can do at least 15k between each round. heck even when we are not life tapping with spells our terrors have a chance to proc 11k/22kcrit heals on your group. when tanking I will hold back certain dps abilities to make sure that they are available while building agro to make sure that the self healing is doing what it needs to do between rounds.

You also need to keep in mind that each round is 2 seconds or so, 1 second (+/- .2) unslowed, and if the mob is unslowed then that is on your team, and sometimes you if its undead or not. That means that you have the ability to cast a spell every 1.8 seconds (GCD) on average for hate or life tapping. There will be interruptions, but you have other tools to deal with that. Yes there might be a vary rare situation where you don't have a tool or spell up and available, but that is going to be an exception and I cant even think of one atm. They have given us great tools over the last 3 expansions to deal with healing and avoiding damage.

Go look at your heal logs and tell me you are not healing yourself for at least 15k between combat rounds. My raids may be the exception but we almost always put 3 sk in a group together to have 90% up time on epic for ourselves and use anguish bp for the downtime in between.

Too bad that "isn't how any of this works", or else I could just post badly as a paladin and get them reduced to where they should be.

After I'm done here, I'm going to go make some posts in the other game I play and get the rifles nerfed. Oh wait, no I'm not, they design the game and I play it, and they don't care what peoples 100000 different opinions are.

This game is like a drunk driver is making all the changes, its nuts, they didn't do a small tweek to the beastlord class which may or may not be good in the long term. They take the most fundamental things of the game, which have been in play since game began, and completely turn them on end, and don't seem to even realize or care.

LOL keep on cherry pickin my friend.

So you would now like to admit you were caught trying to fabricate an OMG they do 80% more DPS than warriors.

Again you lack facts and honesty.

Go look again your facts are all made up to keep a strawman argument you don't even know what your talking about/

And its a fact you all love to toss in Knights faces so stop with your broken crutch. You all don't want spells so whats your point?

I don't know what your saying. Before, people said, quote where anyone said DP WAS NOT over blown. Now, your saying, I need to quote where anyone said that IT WAS overblown?

I don't think you guys know which side your trying to be on

OMG you mean different people MIGHT have different opinions, say its no so, its so confusing!

So, the substance is, giving knights 5% innate mitigation, plus defensive prof, while letting paladins keep all their previous spells and abilities, was a bad change to make.

Yes you've clearly proven paladins needed dp and should keep it, while you say how it was a bad change and overblown.

Sorry i tricked you with cherry picking

Why are we discussing knight vs war dps anyways? We both suck at it, who cares?

EDIT: In normal tanking groups, I'm happy when I sustain 30k in raids each event while using DPS appropriate set ups. Most of the parses I look at have all tanks being around the 20-30k sustained range in tank groups so it's not like the difference between us is large...or matters.

Straight burn parses are normally 70-80k on a good night. Are SKs/Pallies that much higher than that? I haven't personally seen it. I guess if you want to throw a tank in a dps grp it will be, but I've never been placed in a dps group, nor have I seen knights getting placed there.

Who's in dps groups? DPS classes. I know, what a progressive idea, putting dps classes in dps group set ups

pretty sure i said 80X not 80%

OMG you tricked me so good, good on you. Wait what were we talking about:? dps right? what does mitigation have to do with dps?

So. really? were back to needing me to link and quote what each knight said about defensive profeciency? Ok. am I looking for knights saying it should, or should not have been copy pasted this time?

IDK because you say only 2 Knights have said it was over done and you failed at that because I have said it multiple times. Your just incapable of reason and trying to quote people and failing over and over.

We would like a full quotation with running tally of each please, with some shrubbery to make it look nice. and not that single level shrubbery either, we want the multi tier shrubbery, don't be slackin on us.