Greetings, New paladin here. I was chatting with a few players on my server about which is more appropriate for Paladins, Hagi or Hdex. I was told the HAgi changed when the AC line changed to Mitigation/Evasion. Reading some of the more recent forums some suggest Hagi is more to pad stats for Magelo. However, others simply state Hdex is better for group content, and Hagi is better for endgame raid... but most importantly is about skill play than anything else. That is... how to properly active skills, and when to cast spells/rotations. ...this information was from December/2016. https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...heroic-stat-for-tanking-in-group-game.237486/ Can someone who is well more knowledgeable help me out? Please.
I vote HCha!!! Go against the machine - break the cycle! A close 2nd choice for Pal is HInt. Sorry, I could not resist. If you read any of the tank aug posts (there are many - hint, hint), you will find the everyone agrees on DHex as primary focus for augs for knights.
HDex is the best for group content. not only is it a noticeable dps increase it is nearly equal with HAgi as far as mitigation goes. I'm in the HAgi camp for raid mobs though. Parses are hard to do on raid bosses but I ran some parses on the trash raid mobs in PoHealth raid zone and your dodge/parry/riposte/block chance is effectively 0% against even the trash in that zone, so HDex is useless for that, however, HAgi does still increase your avoidance AC and my admittedly short parse showed that going from all HDex type 5 augs to all HAgi type 5 augs increased my miss chance from 26ish % to 28ish %. no gaurantee it's even that much but as far as I'm concerned it's enough that I'm sticking with HAgi. Some people will argue HSta or HDex still because HDex still improves dps.
If you are doing group content, HDex is the best. If you are doing also raid content, HAgi is the best Don't try to balance one stat with another, go full Hdex or full Hagi, and use type 7/8 augs that reflect your choice, preference to augs with AC / HP than some aug with AC and no HP (even if this AC is > 45) That being said, for a knight whose job will be to tank raid adds, Hagi can still maybe do a bit of something regarding your mitigation / avoidance AC, as all avoidance checks are bypassed in raid, even from raid adds. For a warrior who tanks raid bosses, not only all avoidance checks are bypassed, but also mitigation / avoidance AC does again less difference if any. So going Hsta is probably the best route for a raiding warrior, and even if you tank raid adds, you won't be penalized versus a tank that went Hagi, because raid adds hit nearly all the time too. To conclude on this, I believe strongly that what will make the biggest difference between tanks won't be what tanking heroic you have chosen, HSta or Hagi for raid content, but how well are you using your mitigation abilities, being a warrior or a knight. A tank that goes full Hcha and uses well his tools will do way better than a Hagi tank that hardly uses anything.
The efficacy of damage avoiding skill checks (Dodge, Parry, Riposte, Miss) varies by content. The skill checks were absolutely useless in CotF, but are not so any more. logs are all recent: vs Anashti Tanking summary for: Szilent | Total Melee | Damage: 13778668 | Avg hit: 22296 | Attempts: 814 | Riposted: 17/814 [2.09%] | Parried: 10/797 [1.25%] | Defended: 27/814 [3.32%] | Missed: 140/787 [17.79%] | Hits: 647/787 [82.21%] | Absorbed: 29/647 [4.48%] | Real Hits: 618/647 [95.52%] vs. Gorenaire Tanking summary for: Szilent | Total Melee | Damage: 8929778 | Avg hit: 18040 | Attempts: 892 | Riposted: 8/892 [0.9%] | Parried: 26/884 [2.94%] | Defended: 34/892 [3.81%] | Missed: 298/858 [34.73%] | Hits: 560/858 [65.27%] | Absorbed: 65/560 [11.61%] | Real Hits: 495/560 [88.39%] vs Stuff in Kar`Zok battle Tanking summary for: Szilent | Total Melee | Damage: 4422347 | Avg hit: 14405 | Attempts: 646 | Riposted: 12/646 [1.86%] | Parried: 49/634 [7.73%] | Defended: 61/646 [9.44%] | Missed: 253/585 [43.25%] | Hits: 332/585 [56.75%] | Absorbed: 25/332 [7.53%] | Real Hits: 307/332 [92.47%] Similarly, the advice to slam 100% hAgi or hDex is somewhat anachronistic. There are minimums for each to be functional w/r/t defensive checks; those minimums have increased in each successive expansion. The minimum got especially "real" in TDS, wherein it was somewhat out of scale with what was achievable for group tanks. In order for non-raiders to beat the minimum and benefit from their heroics, they had to choose one or the other. Any points in the one not chosen would be basically non-functional. Now, though, the gap between raid and group gear is far narrower; even tanks without raid gear will meet the minimums no problem. With both actually functioning, there's no special benefit, no hidden mechanic incentivizing completely eschewing one for the chosen other. In spots where the options are equivalent, you can go hAgi for a slight edge in defenses, or go hDex for the combo of defenses and a little offensive boost. Where the options aren't equivalent, it's my advice to just take the bigger one. Examples: Swift Blueseed isn't just a superbad Resplendent Sulstone of Deftness - it has a 12 points advantage total of hSta+hDex+hAgi, so it's worth using. I'm currently equipping all of the mob-dropped, Lore, higher total stats versions of the hDex, hAgi, and hSta type5 augs. Even a couple of the hStr focused ones. On the other side, Avarice versus Hypocricy are basically the same augment, so you choose the stat you'd like to boost. Or you go ahead and use both if you get to replace something old. It would not be worth holding on to… like, Crushed Hope for its hDex, or a Fear Infused Charcoal for its hAgi (both entirely legit augs for their era), rather than swap out for the better overall TBM augs with their higher totals.
in my experience as a group geared paladin grouping, moloing with a cleric merc etc its all meh. I haven't min/maxed in long time but I haven't found things I can't tank. I have a mix of t2/sebilis gear with type 5 augs, geared for dex and outdated non vis and real augs. Even after the nerf I still tank with a 2her unless fighting a named. In my opinion even in group gear we have out paced any real challenge. With that being said. Just get a set of group gear and fill it with augs if you can't tank content at that point it goes beyond gear and you're basically doing something wrong. I forgot to mention this ignores the use of stun - I only nuke at this point. If you are stunning you can slum and get by with even less.
Have you wondered why your parry number is higher than riposte one ? It's because most of the parries come from flash of anger. You haven't linked your dodge %, because it's 0 % on EoK raid bosses and on T3 adds too. The skill checks are more useless than ever in raid content. 1% riposte and parry, 0 % Dodge, woot. The % of hit is in the 80 % +, which is what warriors going full Hsta or Hagi see. I had made parses in TBM expansion on the same raid boss and I have seen that getting more Hagi, then more avoidance with the reworking of mod 2, didn't make me miss more, when I compared start of expansion and when fully geared in TBM raid stuff. This is why I came to the conclusion that going full HAgi doesn't improve your miss rate compared to other warriors. What is important in group content is to reach the maximum, not a minimum, in one stat so you can overcome the H strikethrough of mobs. Advocating for a balance of stats is therefore a bad idea imo.
If he's so right, how do you explain that there is hardly any tank that balance HDex and HAgi like he advocates ?.
Brohg clearly illustrated what he was referring to and even provided links of augmentation choices in his examples. Many great knights and warriors gear that way. Easy to pull them up on magelo. What is it exactly you're even trying to debate P2aa? That if a group tank decided to gear for heroic dex, you'd advise them to go with Resplendent Sulstone of Deftness over Swift Blueseed?
He exercises a constant lack of class knowledge about Knights while attempting to come off as a subject matter expert.
By all mean, give me the names of these great tanks that wear Heroic strenght augs. As to your question, for a group geared tank, yes i would use only HDex augs. I'm debating with the bad advice to balance HDex / Hagi. This is not the best thing anymore for any type of tank, be it raid or group.
Magelo's #1 ranked warrior. I stopped looking for other examples when the literal first profile I looked at had them.
Goodurden ? He wears only type 5 heroic sta augs. You seriously aren't going to tell us Nathsar diamond is a Hstr aug ? Edit : You just made a link on it, ok that's one other warrior except you, but I suggest you to look at others profiles too, because it's a minority of players without a doubt. Also have a look at Hstats of top 3 tier guild raiding warriors and tell me if they balanced HDex and Hagi.
Koryu's post from your link is still relevant: This thread also has info on it: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...king-tbm-group-and-raids-hdex-vs-hagi.230058/ My two cents: 1. As a group-content warrior I favor hDex. My team has a lot of melee ADPS, and the warrior puts out a significant amount of the group's damage (around 150k dps), so the extra damage. 2. I haven't seen any decent analysis of tanking EoK mobs with different values of hDex, hSta and hAgi that would stating conclusively one is superior, though based on knowledge of the mechanics hAgi is better for raids. 3. The difference between them is rather small. The only reason it gets a lot of focus is because it's one of the few gearing decisions that people have to make.
So, i redid the parses that i mentioned earlier, and admittedly, the only thing they actually prove is that we do not display any dodge/parry/riposte/block skills while tanking raid mobs in tbm and above unless we use an avoidance ability like flash or deflection. That is why brohg sees parry and ripostes, he used flash and enraged a little I'm sure. this is multiple parses, with varying amounts of hdex and hagi from 800 to 1500 of each, rolled into one against the same trash mob in pohealth raid. i had a shield and a weapon equipped, i was facing the mob. Total Melee --- Damage: 46109937 --- Avg hit: 11374 --- Attempts: 5582 --- Missed: 1525/5582 [27.32%] --- Hits: 4057/5582 [72.68%] --- Absorbed: 3/4057 [0.07%] --- Real Hits: 4054/5582 [72.63%] Not a single dodge/parry/riposte/block in 5582 attempts. I've rolled all of these into one because I've realized i can't isolate variables well enough to actually say anything about what HAGI does to your miss chance. I'm still posting it because it still shows how we don't do any defending at all. The parses are confusing, with 800 hagi and 800 hdex my miss chance was 22% across two different parses. then i added all type 5 hagi augs so i was 1500 hagi and 1100 hdex and my miss chance went up to 29% across 2 separate parses. the confusing part though is i then switched to 1100 hagi and 1500 hdex and my miss chance was still 29%. This kinda made me think that the mobs attack power was the issue and i just wasn't seeing any benefit past 1100 hagi. so i lowered both to 1100 and my miss chance went down to 26%. So, now I'm thinking, maybe everything is just getting misreported as misses because of some bug so i put my dex back up to 1500 and my miss chance was 33% lol. So, from that its probably just that my parses aren't long enough or consistent enough to accurately say what affect any heroic has on your chance to be missed. The only thing i feel i can say for certain is we do not report any dodge, parry, riposte, or block attempts. The skills still fire, you still counterattack all the time and do the damage from riposte, its just the mob doesn't miss you. same with parry, you trigger tendon slice from your belt with your parries but the mob just hits you and the parry isn't recorded in the logs. also when a knight uses deflection it seems to just negate strikethrough, here is a parse against this mob with just deflection used. Total Melee --- Damage: 49376 --- Avg hit: 12344 --- Attempts: 69 --- Riposted: 42/69 [60.87%] --- Parried: 19/27 [70.37%] --- Dodged: 4/8 [50%] --- Defended: 65/69 [94.2%] --- Hits: 4/69 [5.8%] --- Real Hits: 4/69 [5.8%] notice i didn't block at all, it was almost entirely ripostes and parries. this is why so many people don't realize that our avoidance is completely negated, because things like deflection greatly throw off any parse. just to seal the deal, here's a parse of me against a mob in vault raid Total Melee --- Damage: 4215766 --- Avg hit: 17493 --- Attempts: 328 --- Missed: 84/328 [25.61%] --- Hits: 244/328 [74.39%] --- Absorbed: 3/244 [1.23%] --- Real Hits: 241/328 [73.48%] feel free to do your own parse, just remember that any usage of any avoidance disc will significantly throw off your parse.
This. Is this speaking about group or raid content? And what value is this "border" currently at? Our (EoK raid) parses / interpretations of the same seem to indicate that there isn't any difference in the way you gear the heroics to.
