This is a very special server where it is OK to play EQ any way you want, using any 3rd-party software you want. This isn't really different from a regular server, except here you won't be bothered by all the ninnies who think there is only one way to play the game and who don't believe in out-of-the-box thinking. You'll be able to play the game as you always have, but with the confidence of knowing that DB won't ban your accounts! Never again be accused of cheating in a game that is not competitive (there isn't even a way to compare your stats to another player's)! Nothing may be transferred OFF of this server (this is to ensure that there will be no negative impact on the economy of other servers). Free, one-time transfer to this server for any character. Play EQ like you already probably do, but without the fear of being banned for accidentally AFKing to help your fallen grandmother! Utilize the full potential of your brain by conceiving new ways to automate mundane and repetitive tasks! Focus on the fun elements of EQ! Some people take pride in doing things the old, slow way. Don't take away their pride and joy! Instead, move to the new boxer/botter-friendly server! I know I'll be moving all of my accounts to this server, so I can play in peace with all the other normal EQ players that I know, who also box, accidentally AFK, and who see no harm in botting (and who appreciate the server-wide benefits)!
So, if your fantasy came to light, who would go? What's the incentive when there are no actual "normal" players to lord it over, to use to your advantage? Non-cheaters would be foolish to participate. I think the message is clear: They don't want your kind around here. Only the shepherd is allowed to fleece the sheep.
See Thash, your attitude perfectly represents the reason we need a server like this. To prevent more abusive, angry behavior from folks like yourself. I do not box to hamper anybody else's experience. In fact, I am often asked to bring my boxed characters along for support. I do not bot, but I would like to be able to. My reasons for wanting to do either of these has absolutely nothing to do with you. I don't want any advantage over you (real or almost certainly imagined). I don't even want to interact with you. I just want to be able to play the game how I want to. This server would be a place where anything is allowed. This way, back on your server, you wouldn't be affected by us. Why wouldn't you support this? And angry finger-pointers like you, Thash, and the constant threat of being banned, are the only incentives I need to move all my toons. And in the end, I would expect a lot of non-boxers/non-botters to come along, because we'll be having all the fun.
I also enjoy boxing, when I can afford to. I don't have a problem with using, say, is-boxer to facilitate a small group's travels through Norrath. I mostly agree with dbg's policies about what is and isn't allowed, but mage armies (for instance) are a detriment to the experience of the average player far more than they are a boon to the economy. I can appreciate what you propose, but I fail to see the point or how it would benefit anyone who plays EQ for fun. If they were to create, say, a prison server that works exactly as you describe, I believe everyone involved would quit.
Its an interesting concept for sure to have a server that you can call The Matrix. There is no spoon right? The one thing though I see completely backfiring is the fact a lot of botters (not all of them) need normal players to sell loot to that they incessantly farm either for plat or RMTs. The idea of having a botter friendly/illegal software friendly server may actually drive normal players away because of what they deal with on TLP & Live servers as it is. If there isn't a good population of normal players, the botters won't find a reason to make a move on that server - and therefore, the server would be a failure.
Playing EQ for fun is exactly what I'm proposing! By giving people a place to safely do what they already want to do, you would be ALSO be giving relief to all the people who are against boxing/botting. It is sort of like birth control or allowing people to drink in bars. Recognizing that people are going to do what they will, but maybe there are ways of doing it that won't affect everybody else. I don't think you'll have the issues with mage armies, since there won't be any profit in it (nothing can be transferred off). If somebody wants to spend $809.46 for All Access for their "mage army" (for just one month), to play around, let them! They won't be making any money off it, since they can't transfer anything off the server.
@Aghinem, the wonderful thing about offering this server as an official home for botters/boxers, is that all the haters could feel free to harass and ban the botters on the regular servers using all the old tactics ( & moan until they are banned). The new server suggestion is intended to help "normal" players who enjoy boxing/botting feel safe and to help minimize conflicts between aggressive rule-followers and people who just want to play how they want. This is sort of like building a new field for the high school team so they don't unintentionally hurt the gradeschool kids while sharing the field. Anybody who continued to box/bot on the old servers after they were given the option to move to the box/bot-friendly server really could be labeled a bad guy.
The debate against boxers/botters/software users seems to be centered around the breaking of existing rules. There is no empirical evidence that shows boxers/botters/software users are actually hurting anybody. There are tons of claims (and videos) of, "hey look at that guy breaking the rules! Get him!" Games change and how people play games change, and the rules should change along with them. From my personal experience, I know far more boxers than non-boxers. I'm in a raid guild on Bristlebane and if all the boxers left, we would lose probably half our members and 90+% of our core raid group. Not one of us is out to cause a bad day for anybody else. Since there is obviously a vocal group that likes to role-play (and pretend to pick each flower they tradeskill, and pretend each encounter with "a gnoll_874902218829" is a unique notch on their belt), I'm proposing a solution that would allow both groups of people to play safely without interfering with each other.
Pretty sure it's not boxers people get up in arms about. It's botters and those that use cheat software.
Pretty sure you'll find haters against boxers too. The line between boxing and botting is incredibly fine. With the new AFK rules, pretty much every EQ player who has ever gone AFK is a botter by definition. But what I think needs the most clarification right now, is how does DB define the competition in EQ that would even warrant an "advantage" (which is part of the definition of "cheating")? In other words, how can there be cheating if there is no competition? Remember, you can not see another toon's stats (unless both you and the other person use a 3rd-party software). You can not even see another person's achievements unless you can target them, and you can buy achievements, so those don't really count. Perhaps if DB had some sort of ranking system, it would at least validate the idea that cheating could even exist in EQ. It still wouldn't affect the fact that a lot of us just want to be able to play how we want (we are not trying to hurt anybody else).
Gotta agree with this. Every day I log in my box team, but more often than not one or more spots is filled by real players who are lfg in the area. I should also add however that I dont use IS, but do use wineq2 for window management. point being, if you were to watch me play, all 4 of my guys will not all stand up at once and converge on a mob in unison. So to the average player it looks more "legit" I guess.
How about going all in and also make it a no-rules PVP server and allow player corpse looting (say...one item). Also, make all gear tradable like on FV.
PVP is a completely separate issue, but if you would like to see 2 new boxer/botter friendly servers (one PVP and one normal), then I'm all for it! The big misconceptions I'm trying to cure are that botters or boxers are somehow negatively affecting anybody else and the idea that EQ is competitive (with anybody but yourself). It is not to promote anarchy or a lawless environment, but the opposite: that the rules against botters/boxers are no longer relevant and only serve to vilify a perfectly safe (and even beneficial) play style.
Yea, I know. Boxing and botting are two entirely separate things. I would say all botters probably box, but the percentage of boxers who bot is probably extremely low. Also, botting is against the EULA, while boxing is perfectly within the rules, except on certain servers. But, you know all this. I personally wouldn't have a problem with a server where botting is allowed. That alone probably wouldn't be enough for me to create a toon for that server. Now a true anything goes "wild west" server with PVP and no rules whatsoever (a level 105 could PK a level 1) might be fun, or it might be no fun at all. I would definitely give it a try though. Dibs on the guild name "Lordz of Gank".
I never got into EQ PVP because the people already there seem to have too much of an advantage to make it any fun for noobs. I love PVP in other games! I always thought it would be fun to have a PVP server that had very frequent character-level resets: Once a week, all characters would be reset back to level 1. Your gear (and AAs) would persist on your toon, but wouldn't be available until you leveled up appropriately. Then, at the end of a full month, the entire server would be wiped and reset. Rankings would of course be tracked so everybody could have a real competition! To keep it interesting for everybody, month 2 could start all toons at level 20, and everybody starts with the same level appropriate skills/AAs/gear. Month 3 could start all toons at level 30, etc., until the end of a year (the last few months could be lvl 105 tournament). And then, at the end of the year, the whole thing is reset back to level 1 and a new tournament starts. Besides PVP stats, you could also track (for tournament) guild and personal achievements.
The difference between boxing and botting is not a fine line at all. They are two separate things altogether. One is allowed and requires no cheating, the other is cheating.
I agree. Boxers using art of tabbing back and forth to control their crew versus botters use macro-setting software to give their team automated responses for every situation under the sun.
