Need Before Greed on a game with Kronos doesn't make sense.

Thus, it doesn't matter what loot rules are set by a group, as long as they all agree upon them. I'm glad you're come around to our side on this. There's nothing "unethical" about people rolling on items they can't use in PUGs.

And I never said that was the case.

People are not upset with the group when they lose a fair roll.

Now you are just making up .

People get upset at not having a fair chance to win the item.

And that isn't what I said. I said some people don't like having to buy a drop from another member of the group when it is an important item for them.

Yes, preferring to give things away to my friends is so "entitled"....

You're a sane and rational person.

we had need before greed well before WoW was an mmo in development. because it was a community standard. we also had a pretty decent self governance system along with GM enforcement.

problem was:

-EQ turned into a game that required multiple accounts to play it.
this dramatically lowered the playerbase (though sales didnt dip cuz boxes), destroyed the legitimacy of the GM staff, and changed the playerbase character/mentality.

-(GoD destroys game, playerbase, and staff, WoW is born)

-add in krono a few years later which can pay for your accounts.. after making FV a free trade server..
corruption ensues, krono mafia is born from the ashes of the ebay boys. new careers are born. the playerbase lowers yet again and the playerbase mentality changes yet again.

-add in TLPs where you create an environment to 'farm' krono beyond PLs and gatekeeping zones.. korno sales explode... and we invent the krono cartel, not sure if the playerbase population changed, it seems they just moved off of live to play TLPs and might have attracted the random p99 refugee. but the kartel has since chased the majority of players away, cept the few whales who they cater to.

currently, No new player stays (and very rarely the rose-tinted glassed vet) once they see the investment needed in tech/money/time to even play the game, much less realizing the corruption in the game as people literally offer fast lane services to expedite this, for krono.

but yeah, need before greed is the problem.
at least on a pvp tlp server we could wreck the bastards, but they wont give us that pleasure.

Reread the thread, if you ever did read it in the first place. The quote you quoted out of context is about Pick up groups, not friends or guild.

wt

No, that's not what you said at all. But since you're now disavowing your original remarks, it's a moot point.

I can't help if if you choose to take my remarks in a way I didn't intend. I just stated that someone wouldn't be happy having to buy the drop that they need from someone else in their group after it drops. That was not a statement on them being upset that they lost the roll on the item.

none of your posts make any sense

What you stated was "why should someone have to buy an item" that dropped in a group they were in. If you're speaking English, that parses as a condemnation on the ethicality of rolling out all items. When that was pointed out to you, you disavowed your own remarks. /shrug.

And that doesn't suggest that they are upset about losing a roll for the item. That was just a question about need versus greed.


If you read through the thread I also stated that it is up to the group to be clear about the loot rules upfront and forming a group with friends/guild members is a good way to ensure that drops go to those who need them.

Could you summarize your stance on NBG? The original post was specifically about someone claiming "need" on a gorget, then turning around and selling it. I ask because, you seem to agree with everything without saying anything

-> noone likes to buy an item after they lose the roll for the item, from the winner in the group
-> sometimes NBG makes sense, sometimes GBN makes sense
-> Groups should be clear about loot rules upfront.

Just to clear things up - some of us are specifically talking about PUGs (not friends groups, not guild groups), though some gnomechild every page will jump in and talk about friends groups and guild groups.

People seem to be upset that I suggested that someone might not be happy buying an item that dropped in the group from someone else. I am not sure what is so complicated about that concept.

Then why choose my post to quote to elucidate that? I made it clear my post was about why I've shifted away from PUGs much at all, but then you chose to target my post that stated such as the quote you were using.

Firiona Vie was a Free Trade server from the first day it opened in early 2002. Krono was added much later. FV in the aughts had a significant issue with 3rd party RMT with the biggest of the traders being blatantly positioned in the Bazaar prior to GoD. When they allowed transfers from the prestige server (Storm-something), it created a conduit for additional RMT on all servers using Storm/FV.

FV was the single (ONE TOON) character only, RP server initially. One character only. That changed when krono came about and they offered the one way transfers to FV (destroying the RP part of FV) 'Free trade' was the replacement word for 'roleplaying'. The server was never meant to be a haven for corruption, it was meant to be the opposite in fact.

I am well aware. I played on FV from a month or so after launch until I left and I returned there a few years ago when I came back to EQ.

• It has ALWAYS been labeled as "RP preferred". In the aughts there were a lot more active RPers on the server but there were always non-RP, too. There was NEVER a requirement to roleplay just "encouraged". (There was quite a lot of forums drama in the aughts over that, too).
• At launch,1 character per account (this is why I have 3 accounts... wizard to transport my ranger main and then another account to play with my sweetie when I got him to pick up the game *laugh*). This was later changed to 4 per account, but I think it was before the change to F2P. Then the same character per account restrictions as all other servers which I think was the change with F2P. 1 character per account did provide a measure of accountability and reputation building until they opened the floodgates with character renames (and transfers from Storm-whatever prestige server).
• No common language, you start with the language of your race only which was meant to facilitate RP and did, somewhat.
• It has ALWAYS been a Free Trade server. The RMT corruption increased every year and got more and more blatant. On top of that, any plat exploit was magnified because of Free Trade.

FV allowed for more characters long before krono and I am pretty sure they also allowed for one way server transfers long before krono as well.