Need Before Greed on a game with Kronos doesn't make sense.

If whether or not someone "needs" something has been left up to the players, then it's up to them to decide whether or not they need something. By your own definition.

Your original contention was that people don't need in-game items at all. You specifically said "No one "needs" anything whatsoever," which was your first entry into the discussion. But you just said that whether or not someone needs something has been left up to them to decide.

So I'm glad we have reached an agreement on the fact that people "need" things in game based on whatever criteria they decide on using... What is the argument, again? That you wont drop dead without EQ items? Again, seems like shifting and splitting hairs for no reason other than to try and argue.

You don't need any item from a group "need" roll -- which is what this thread is about.

And yet that's exactly what you tried to do in your first post to this thread:

"...Why should someone at a camp have to pay multiple krono to another member of the group to get a drop that they need?..."

There's no agreement, and no hair-splitting. Read the thread. I was refuting the belief that 'need' has already been predefined to mean "it's an upgrade, no matter how minor, so it belongs to me."

This thread is about people claiming "need" on an item and turning around and selling it for a profit and that is something that has been happening long before krono got introduced into the game though krono don't help.

Players still need items from groups and the fact that some people abuse the system doesn't matter.

No, that's not at all what that sentence is doing. That sentence in no way "tells someone whether they do or don't need something." This is quickly becoming troll posting :\

I don't think the majority of players fall into the mindset of any minor upgrade is a need roll. And once you get far enough in progression most items become no drop and it is no longer as big of an issue.

Delete response, don't feed the trolls.

You've misread both my post and the one to which I was responding. The sentence isn't difficult to parse: "why should someone at a camp have to pay another group member for something they need?" translates very simply to a demand that no one roll for items unless they can use them personally.

- Sheldon Cooper

It wasn't a demand for anything, it was a question about how people can feel about having to pay for an item that dropped in a group that they where taking part in.

So if there were three in the group who could use the item, what would be the case as they all three "need" it and wouldn't have to pay for the item which dropped?

While I'm not reading the thread - the title made me realize, this is probably a good hunk of why I've shifted to only really grouping with friends rather than random LFGing, with rare exceptions.

I still live by NBG rules but re-explaining the intent to follow them to random others do get exhausting with the "everyone needs krono" theorem.

Personally, I just adjust my expectations. In a guild or friend group, there is something of an expectation that we'll need/greed loot fairly. Perhaps best to discuss it quick, but in my current guild - it just goes unsaid. "Hey, do you need xxx?".

I'll even hold on to some items for new members, etc.
However; when I'm in a PUG, I just simply expect all loot to translate to cash.

Expecting everyone to 'play fair' depends on how they see 'playing fair' and well some don't even care about that. So set your expectations appropriately. There's no good way to address this situation outside of 'community'.

If they make all the gear 'no drop', it'll suck. Sure, the other guy in the group won't be able to sell it. But that also means, you won't be able to buy it. If you want it then - you'll have to camp it or buy loot rights.

I'll take EC tunnel and full greed PUGs all day before 'all gear no drop' or buying loot rights. Many people enjoy the economic/trading aspect of the game.

ok?

So if a warrior loots a cloth item and sells it to buy gear for their warrior what's the problem?

If everyone in the group contributed equally why should one person be entitled to gear simply because they can wear it?

If you don't like it, don't group with randoms. Simple.

And certain camps only drop certain items for certain classes.

it isn't fair to the others to just give away an item simply because it's an upgrade.

if someone wants to sell the item to buy something they need, that's their business.

I swear the sense of entitlement on some of these old gamers is just insane.

This comes up every few years, especially after the advanced loot window was implemented.

While the whole "NBG" is prima facie, "intuitively" meaningful, it just takes a couple of minutes of thought to see why it is nonsensical in a PUG full of in-game strangers, and also why it gets abused by some (victims here are the NBG supporters mostly, sadly.) NBG has been abused since 1999 (before WoW, for those who blame everything in their MMO life on WOW)

The fairest way is the give everyone in group who have put in the same amount of time/effort an equal chance at an item drop.

Note that this does not apply to friends/guilds. This is about PUGs. And noone wants to address the question of "why would casters/priests camp frenzy in a group, because the melee always "need" the FBSS compared to other classes). The mother theresas who wax eloquent about "ohhh we make friends that way, this is how EQ must be 1!11! OMG we did table top this way in 80s" rarely walk that talk.

There is a reason the very vast majority just set most to need (Except no-drop, and on this server, with heirloom for almost all NODROPs it will be even more so for those with alts), while a handful few who wont see the point lose the plot moaning on the forums (unfortunately, for them).

If that is what the group agreed to that is fine, I just made a statement that someone might not be happy being forced to purchase a drop that they want to use from someone else who was in the group when it dropped.

JUST prior to starting on Oakwynd I was playing WoW. Every blue drop in every group I was in was 'needed' by everyone.

Greens they might skip, just because inventory in WoW is so limited.

EQ had 'weight' to put some restriction on how much junk a person could carry around, WoW just decided to limit bag space to an almost unreasonable level to mitigate that.

But I found in both games - you'll find some people that are greedy.. others are just fine giving loot to someone who needs it.

Thing is - the whole concept here is about human nature.

Although, I will admit, it's not a problem in Elder Scrolls online. That game will throw SO MUCH gear at you, you are destroying it. That game, while fun in a lot of ways - just seems silly. You can be fully geared and raiding by level 15. That's no joke and it doesn't require any effort.

Make a character, find a 'dolmen' and the gear and XP will rain down.

And the person who passed on the roll for a 2 kr might be unhappy to purchase some different item from that same person who won, right? Now the person has both a free 2 kr item **and** the krono from the person who helped him get it. You're not getting the economic concept of fungibility here.

You can say the same for everyone in the group who doesn't win an item when it drops, it doesn't matter what the loot rules are people are going to be disappointed that they didn't win an item. As I stated before people will feel disappointed if they end up having to buy something that they will use when it dropped with them in the group.

In the end what matters is everyone agreeing on the loot rules before something drops.