Need Before Greed on a game with Kronos doesn't make sense.

I dunno it’s easy. Guild groups or groups with friends nbg. If you’re in a pug just need everything that you want to need, if you think someone else deserves it and you win it hand it to them.

I’ll tell you what though, if you want to make friends help people farm things and chat them up.

If everyone just rolls need then everyone can eventually trade their way to whatever specific item it is they're after with no drama. Also opens up a lot more leveling options for you if you don't restrict yourself to only camps that drop "your item" and group members that aren't going to roll against you.

I admit the Need before Greed thing is completely useless and actually makes me want to quit after yesterday.

I was in Unrest basement playing as a paladin with full banded gear because I'm a broke nub and multiple pairs of dwarven work boots dropped sure they would have been a massive upgrade for me but no two pairs went to a twink with full loam gear from the hole and one pair went to the ranger that actually could use them. That's not counting the jagged rings.

Seriously it's demotivating like why am I even playing the game? I can't actually earn my gear because someone that can't even use the items needs on them then wants to sell them to me? Screw off. Honestly just typing about it makes me even more upset.

No one "needs" anything whatsoever. You want it -- you don't need it.

What are you talking about? There are plenty of reasons for someone to "need" an item from letting them do what they need to in game to letting them get another item that will let them do what they need to in game.

Just because you don't think they "need" something doesn't mean that is actually the case.

You don't "need" items to do anything in game ... with the exception of a few rare key quests, which isn't what this thread is even about.

I'll be specific to the OP's point. An item drops, which gives Alice 20 more hp. Brodie can't use it -- but he can trade it for an item which gives him 50 more hp and 50 more mana. Cletus can't use it either, but he can sell it and buy the remaining item which will allow him to finish his epic.

Now -- who "needs" that item?

If you don't "need" items to do anything in the game why does it matter to you if someone claims need on them? Besides it isn't even remotely true that you don't "need" items to do anything in the game.

If you want Need before greed join a steady group and you will get that. If you want Greed before need then make sure you set those rules when creating a group or that is how the group works when joining a group.

There is no need to force your loot rules on other players and instead you should ensure everyone in the group/raid understands the loot rules when they join.

I don't understand the complaint of the thread.

1. Loot rules can be challenged, discussed, or changed at anytime by the group.
2. In a random group mostly everyone follows the 'need on everything' rule. (see above, though.)
3. Guilds don't dictate the rules of any group.
4. Guild groups often stick to the 'need before greed' loot rules, but that's not always the case

With all this in mind, if you don't like the loot rules of a group, you have the option to disband. You're free to form your own group, set the loot rules, and people can also decide if they wish to join or stick around as well.

Isn't it obvious? Because I "want" them myself. But I don't need them.

Name any specific example, and I'll show you how you're wrong.

Try doing max level content either group or raid without any gear and tell me how well that works for you. Items and spells are needed to compete in this game regardless of what you claim.

You bring up a fair point with no easy answer. I will say that true NBG is one of the easiest systems to exploit: a player goes only to camps where they need an item, then, once they win it, stays a couple mobs to make it not too obvious, then moves on. Then another person who needs that same item joins, while those grinding there for hours get nothing.

To hearken back to the days long before "need" and "greed" rolls, I was organizing the first planar raids on my server in Classic. The warriors and clerics all came to Hate for their armor drops, while Fear raids abounded with necros and wizards. When a failed raid meant potential loss of all your gear, this was a serious problem. Out of that chaos arose the system known as DKP -- to equitably reward players based on time spent, regardless of whether that particular spot dropped the items they needed.

What works best in groups? For ad-hoc pickup groups that don't last long, random rolling all items is probably the best option, though ethical players will, once they win something large, pass on others -- "needed" or not -- until everyone has something. Over the long term, it's the most equitable. If you have a steady perma-group, better systems are available. And, as others have pointed out, any system is fine: as long as the entire group agrees upon it.

Glad to. On Oakwynd, I camped undead tower starting Day 3 of the server, wearing nothing but my level 1 cloth starter armor. And I was the puller, too. Do you know a tougher spot in classic for a group? Guild-wise, we took down every raid boss in Classic -- Eye included -- within 10 days of the server coming up, with nearly everyone in the guild dressed no better than I.

Bosses in later expansions won't be defeated with everyone starkers, I admit-- but gear that is considered godlike in Classic or Kunark is, by the time PoP rolls around, available for literal pennies in the bazaar.

You are making this claim based off no expansions being released? That won't be possible very quickly and I don't think your claims are very accurate.

You're not helping you case with flawed arguments like this. There isn't a boss in any expansion that can't be beaten with gear that's easily soloable from previous expansions. There is nothing you "need" from a group to be able to play the game.

But even worse for your position is this fact: the other people in this hypothetical NBG group are also trying to kill those same bosses -- and they can trade or sell that item you believe you "need" for upgrades of their own.

The only flawed argument is that you are only looking at content before the release of any expansions without considering how quickly it changes.

I think you're getting drawn into a pedantic argument with someone who is splitting hairs over what 'need' means.

You say you need a_spoon from a Sand Giant to finish your Enchanter epic, he says you don't need an Enchanter epic and thus you don't need a_spoon.

A thread about whether or not the Need/Greed system works in today's Krono-hungry PUGs has fallen to whether or not you """"""truly""""" need any item in EQ; emphasis on all of the words being used with shifting definitions in the above posts to make no real point.

From the perspective of the developers who originally implemented Need/Greed for rolls, I'd assume their definition of "Need" was something along the lines of "I'm going to use this now because it's better than what I currently have." Within the context of a meaningless fake cartoon world made up of pixels, I need it. Now, most groups translate "Need" to "I can somehow benefit from this."

So what was the argument again? That you don't NEED EverQuest? Or something? Because you can beat Nagafen with no equipment?

Then you'd assume wrong. The devs specifically did not define it, but left the meaning up to players -- which explains why you can click "need" on an item you can't equip. QED.

As for the absurd accusation of "shifting definitions", I'm not the one who claimed that a trivial upgrades to specific items were essential to beating end-level content. I did, however, debunk the claim.

I'm looking at any and all content up to (at least) OoW, none of which requires "uberitem_00x" to win. And you're still ignoring the main point. If Item A is a small upgrade for you, but can be traded for a larger upgrade for someone else in the group -- who "needs" it more"

Every group can and should define its own equitable division of loot. You're not automatically entitled to every little upgrade that drops ... not unless you convince your groupmates so.

What I am arguing against is the idea you don't need anything in Everquest which is a silly idea. What someone needs though will depend on the person.

You are free to define what "need" means to you but you are not free to tell others what it means and force them to follow the definition. Just because you don't agree with how others see it doesn't mean that they are wrong.