Need Before Greed on a game with Kronos doesn't make sense.

Why should players be allowed to loot items that are worth $20-60 under the false pre-tense that it's the virtuous thing to do? I think this is one thing that Blizzard got right when they made World of Warcraft. If you roll need on an item, that item should become no drop / non-heirloom, to insure that you're not just going to turn around and instantly sell it for $$$ or give it to your level 1 twink. <-- This is fine when greed is involved, but never when need is involved IMHO.

And I know this is what players are doing. One of my favorite Clerics to group with sold an Abalone Gorget for a Krono, and the only reason I know this is because I wanted to see how much they cost now that I'm leveling a Cleric. Went to TLP auctions website, typed in Abalone Gorget, and was shocked to see the Cleric who claimed they needed the Abalone Gorget selling theirs. (At least have the decency to log onto an alt, like wut?)

They already added WoW's FTE mechanics to the game, so they might as well go ahead and add the WoW loot mechanics to the game as well. Let's keep it real.

Why should someone at a camp have to pay multiple krono to another member of the group to get a drop that they need?

Yes, there are times when need before greed makes sense and there are times when greed before need makes sense.

Sounds like you PUG a lot.

Simple fix for this. Group with Guildies. Every Guildy group I've been in to date has set loot as NBG. Only pugs do a Need everything.

Everyone needs every droppable item in pugs. You all need the money for upgrades equally. Simple fix. In friend groups you can work it out amongst yourselves.

Each TLP gets an influx of returning players from 20 years ago and P99ers (basically the same thing).

The way everyone rolls need on everything is, frankly, an anthema to me. Coming from WoW, rolling need on something that you plan to sell/give to an alt/give to someone else when a person in your group can use it immediately is the height of scumbaggery, yet here it seems to be an accepted norm. I've seen quite a few groups where something will drop and the tank or someone in the group could use it immediately, but a mage or someone who can't even use it will roll need on it and there's no repercussion at all in the group. no calling them a ninja, nothing. It's just oh well, you stole an upgrade from someone in the group you are in for selfish reasons, and that's it

Early TLPs still followed the need before greed mentality. Over time, with Krono, and people recycling TLP's each year to farm Krono, it's become more of a free for all mentality.

When you have 18 boxers farming every GEB camp, etc. Sometimes the only way to get GEBs is win something else and sell it to buy what you need.

It sounds like your groupie fought equally hard for the item, won the roll, and decided they could do what they want with the item..

It is very kind of you to let the man have it if he said he needed it - maybe he needed plat lol. I don't see many situations where the pixels are worth building a forum rant over.

Seeing people as far back as Phinigel claim Need on an item, having the group agree to give them said item(s) then seeing them sell those items in the tunnel as soon as the group broke hardened my attitude toward it. Not just 1 or 2 isolated incidents either, was common for casters to group in the hole back then, demand all loam drops be for casters only and sell it at the end of the day and show up the next day in cloth and do it again.

I have no sympathy for strangers claiming b b but muh upgrade, at this point I don't know who you are and have no idea whether or not you will actually use the item or sell it.

And it's not even about krono, I don't really concern myself with farming krono, but I like to have some on hand to buy stuff I can't easily acquire myself.

If you want to get cleric gear then play your cleric. Playing a character should take priority over outfitting your alt. Not to mention being nice instead of greedy is kind of good.

It strikes me as odd that a forum post is even made about this. Not everyone is a scumlord, but I can't count on my fingers and toes the amount of times someone has rolled need on an item in a "need before greed" group, then when it item drops that is not for that class, they roll "need again". This even occurs in some guild situations, and in raids, where people "forget" to turn off filters. Yes, I understand guilds will have stricter rules than others, etc etc but no one that plays this game can tell me they dont see it on a regular basis. In a pug, roll on the loot dude, or lose out. If your a kind soul, roll on the loot, and give it to the guy in the group you think deserves it.

Pretty much this. Not every camp has something for all classes.

I've joined groups and the loot rule was need on everything and purchase the items you need after. I've swaped my wins for an item I need from another group member. I've also given away items I won as I had no need of them, but followed the group rules. My fav loot rule has been having a master looter who loots it all and we split the items at the end, but you have to trust the looter.

Just make sure when you join a group you find out what loot rules they are using.

I group mainly with friends so most items don't get rolled. I also give away a lot of the items I gain, but I also get given items I need from other guildies.

Need all is pretty standard on early tlp's and should be to avoid this situation. Get something you don't need? Sell it for something you do. At a camp that doesn't drop anything you need? Sell the drops for something you do. Imagine being a cleric at hamlord and watching the warriors cycle through the camp looting their yaks while getting poo drops for yourself. If the group decides to pass loot based on need selling is obviously a d*** move. Need all solves a lot of problems if you don't mind the time to sell loot.

What's the difference if they're selling the loot for plat or krono? The vast majority of players aren't reselling krono for cash, it's just a relatively stable currency for in-game trades. Need before greed generally doesn't work for pugs for tradeable loot regardless, and someone who joins a group and demands it is probably just trying to use you for their own profit without any intent of ever doing the same for others.

Not a bad idea.

Counterpoint: Building systems that remove the need for trust and coerce decency in players also decrease the value of building a community, which is the core of the MMO gaming experience. Games that strip this away become generic and bland because there is no risk or cooperation between players, you're just cogs in a machine. The response from c313 is the right one: group with known friends and guildmates.

Here is why it does make sense.

Trading is a fun mechanic. Your proposal basically gets rid of trading.

In terms of the behavior of human beings. There is always going to be that one guy. You can't trust people to play nice and that assumption is why everyone needs everything and just moves on with their life. In a PuG you just have to accept that mentality and think of everything as a tradable commodity and need everything. Then trade for what you want.

If that is unappealing to you, play with people you know and have the discussion.

While trading is fun having to trade with a group member for an item that dropped while both of you are present when the item dropped isn't fun.

Few things of note here.

1. OP said Cleric was a 'friend' in terms of 'one of my favorite clerics to group with'. If not a friend, an acquaintance.
2. Sounds like OP (and other group members) passed on the necklace with the understanding the Cleric would use it.

Personally, I don't ever PUG for the very reasons above. And, typically I don't even group with guildmates all that often. It's more of a playtime thing on that front, but all the same.

- Story Time -

tl;dr - friend farmed an item for hours only to have it snatched by someone joining within minutes of it dropping

This sort of thing happened to a friend/guildmate on Aradune during the SoF expansion release. If you've played this expansion, you'd know the 'Mech Guardian' instance is the place to be early on. It's one of the only instances with respawning NPCs, named, and loads of high value vendor drops - its a well designed zone!

Anyway, he was in there for about 7 hours grinding away and also looking for a 'Humanoid Reductionizer' which is a fast-cast clicky shrink. He had about an hour left before hopping out, but also invited a guildie Ranger as they wanted to run their lesson since it was a short 30 minute burn. Not 5-10 minutes after the Ranger joined the 'Reductionizer' dropped and the guildie won the roll.

I believe my buddy spent 10 minutes fussing in our chat channel and ultimately decided thereafter - outside of progression - he's never grouping with another person. I believe this was like the 4th time it happened. We're in Underfoot and he refuses to group with folks within his 'farming' runs for personal loot.

Yes "simple fix" find friends willing to group up with you that will synergize together and have similar play times and willing to let you take a valuable item because your class needs it despite everyone putting in the same effort.

That sure does sound simple.........

That is the idea behind this game and things like guilds. They help you camp something and later you help them camp something, treating each item like a one time thing isn't the way to go.