Need advice for high level grouping and raiding box team.

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Powerranger, Dec 28, 2016.

  1. Powerranger Journeyman

    Hey guys,

    I'm really looking for some good advice on which direction I should go in. I have a pretty good feel for most classes in EQ. About 3 or 4 years ago (CotF era) I raided as a 100 zerker. I also had many level 100 characters such as Druid, Ranger, Mage, Enchanter, Warrior, Shaman, Wizard, Necro, SK, Bard.

    I recently returned and have been boxing my enchanter and zerker (weird combo I know). I wanted to keep things simple boxing wise but I'm strongly considering adding a tank back to the mix so here are a few questions for you serious groupers and hardcore raiders.

    I'll be leveling all three up from level 100 to 105 and looking to get top end group gear for my whole team while raiding with one of them.

    It seems that the consensus is to run a SK for group content and that sounds fine with me though I would have to do his epic. Most of the tanking experience I have is with the warrior I made so that is what is familiar.

    I really enjoy the zerker so I'd most likely want to raid with him if possible. Can a SK with top end group gear do most everything needed in order to do progression and go back and do older content as well?

    Would a warrior in full group gear be more stout in the group game than a SK? Would it even matter?

    Should I just raid with my tank so they are super stout and just try to maybe someday get a raid weapon way down the road for my Zerk

    Is there even a demand for SK's in the raid game?

    Should I scrap all that and run zerker, shaman, bard, which all have their epics and just be a zerk monster?

    Would trying to raid with my zerker and having a group geared tank hold me back from doing basically any and all/group content?

    Should I say screw it all and just play my zerker by itself? (Not likely unless I can be convinced otherwise)

    Any thoughts and opinions would be appreciated.

  2. Rhaage Augur

    All 3 tanks can tank all group content.

    The SK's have advantages in things like pulling and AE aggro that make it easier for them to keep a handful of mobs aggro'd on them instead of enchanter or cleric as well as self invis and FD.

    The warriors have better mitigation and other things make them live longer / take a beating better than Pal/SK but they don't have as many utilities as SK's or Pals.

    I can't bring myself to get behind the lore of a Paladin but they bring at least reasonable healing to the mix as well as stuns and other things to help manage the mob.

    Of the three, I believe the warrior is the easiest to set and forget while you focus on ench / zerk. The hybrids would need to be doing lots of casting and etc. to bring out the full potential and that can be a pain in a boxed situation.

    Lastly, I can't vouch for it as I haven't tried it, but its been said that mage pets can tank group content respectably. If true, they may have advantages as they would auto-taunt and maintain melee distance automatically. I would at least certainly consider trying to trio with a mage friend for a few nameds and see how it works.
  3. catcattank Elder

    the sk epic pre-quest to 2.0 wasn't too bad. I got mine last night. don't let the process of getting the epic deter you.

    Day 1

    1) Got tailoring to 115 first via Crescent Reach Freebie (54), cured silk to 82, hand made backpack to 88, wu's fighting mask to 115. only had to farm spider silks and hq bear pelts were saved from leveling.

    2) went to Dulak's initiated pre-quest at Ritald. Killed Captain Varns in same zone, went to plane of storms Olidan killed him, went to Plane of Hate, someone was already there for Essence of Hate so I asked myself if I wanted to pre loot 1.5 pieces so I did.

    3) camped murkglider, 3rd round the breeder spawned. went to plane of nightmare, killed gloom nightmare. went to plane of growth, got unicorn hair. went to plane of valor, killed fraga. I went to plane of fear, killed amygdalan knights, no luck, came back next day for round 2 and got one. learned you can't pre-loot wailing sister.

    Day 2

    1) woke up next day still needed last pre-quest item from plane of hate. went and camped it, 3rd set of spawns got the Overlord to drop it. did a bunch of turn ins, killed wailing sister, ikilled 4 sk's (pok > fob > swamp > fv > td > sro > nro > iceclad > nro > efp > oot) was the route I used to go fast. kithicor then western wastes and 1.5 was done.

    2) started 2.0 questline - city of mist kill human in plate - checked black reavers, some a-hole wizard killed it behind the locked door and zone was empty no captains were up. he left, I got a stone key, used bobbing corpse to levitate onto walkway then again around the locked door, used my pet to pull the reaver inside the island. neh ashiir spawned, killed it, got a key of torsis (elevator) went back to first level to climb elevator, that's where the other black reavers are. killed them + rak ashiir, 2 hr respawn. went to charasis, failed at getting to east wing twice, but once I go tthere, cleared drusilla's room then near exit room was more golems, got the drop on my 5th golem. went to kithicor, pulled a 10 mob train and the ring dropped. went back to city of mist, cleared all reavers no luck, got my box shaman and filled group with 4 offline and 2 online, killed jelvan ring + keldovan, got orb, came back to city of mist, got the drop.

    3) did final fight, it was trivial. you can reduce a lot of the times if you multitask and not just wait at one spawn for things since you can do several things at once.
    Drusi likes this.
  4. moogs Augur

    Please don't be that guy that insists on boxing during raids. The rest of us will end up following emotes to jump out of windows because of you.

    Serious answer: choose a tank to raid with. Raid geared tanks are awesome in the group game so it will make the rest of your EQ time a whole lot easier. Everyone else isn't as gear dependent.
    Slippry likes this.
  5. Corak Elder

    I have been 3 boxing War/Ench/Wiz in EoK zones and doing fine against most of the named. I can't speak to SK's, but I can say the War is a pretty easy tank to box. His pre-fight buffs and opener agro skills are all insta-cast things that work quickly off of macro buttons, then he can hold agro with just autoattack against a wiz merc on auto attack burn and against the wiz and ench nuking or dotting.

    The combo of War / Ench is pretty powerful for dealing with multiple mobs, you have so many options which is a fun way to play.
    eqgamer likes this.
  6. Sikanle Lorekeeper

    If you can swing it I'd raid the SK or War as long as that is still fun to you.
    Raid geared tank = ez mode group content.
    If the zerker is way more fun to raid, your tank will be fine in the new group gear, which is equivalent to TBM raid gear for the first time ever. (Usually group gear is like 3 expansion old raid gear).
    Plus, 3-4 months from now the zerker raid wep will be rotting and you can snag one and kick butt on the Zerker too.
    SK if you are a good boxer, War if you aren't.
    SK + Zerk is a lot of buttons to press, War doesn't need as much attention in grouping.
    Also, I would pick the bard for third slot, tons of utility + ADPS + tracking.

    I run Monk SK Bard and can pretty much do anything. I imagine Zerker (tank) Bard would do just as well.
    Zerker will benefit greatly from Bard songs/epic.
  7. Powerranger Journeyman

    Okay some great advice here thank you all this is exactly what I was looking for. I'm pretty attached to my enchanter/zerker combo but am not totally against just throwing a bard in for songs... I'd hate to have to choose between the 2. I checked out my old warrior and I think just for simplicity's sake I'll probably try to dust him off instead of the SK. He just seems more ready between the 2.

    He's got actually quite a bit of old cotf1 raid gear.. more than I remembered from old alt raids. That is not good enough to just start in EoK is it? Once he's 105? Assuming I don't really know much about TBM or anything. Can I buy any group gear from tbm or eok? I looked up some stuff online but didn't have much luck hunting around the bazaar except seeing some crazy expensive heroic augs.

    I guess I wouldn't mind raiding the warrior.. but I feel like I'm pretty late to the party. Assuming that most guilds probably have their warrior line ups set, and while I know I'm capable of picking things up quick I assume there's more of a learning curve with tanking than dpsing.. not that playing great dps is easy, I know it's not. But if a zerker dies unexpectedly it's probably less of a big deal than the war taking a dirt nap.

    Hopefully there's some quality guilds out there that are in need and or willing to show a returning tank the ropes a little bit.

    So warrior, enchanter, zerker

    Warrior, bard, zerker

    Warrior, enchanter, bars, zerker

    I feel like the bard would be more simple and easy to box, but that the chanter will open up much more options if and when there are complicated or tight situations.

    So I'll have to decide that.

    Any thing that I'm not thinking about between deciding between raiding the zerker or warrior? I assume those are both still desirable classes though probably war more than zerk.

    If my warrior can get going and do EoK just fine without raid gear I'd kinda like to just raid the zerker again but I don't know...

    Can any raid zerks and wars speak up and give some advice and or input.. how much fun are you having? Do you box outside of raids? Etc..

    Thanks for reading and helping me make these decisions!
  8. Kobrah Augur

    If you are a quicker study and can get up to speed .. if you raid your zerker any guild would be glad to pick you up. If you raid the zerker, box an SK they are massively more strong vs other tanks in a group game situation. Zerkers are extremely powerful right now dps wise. If you die on a raid, people will be sad. If the tank dies, someone else steps in like nothing happened and we all go on living our lives. If you want to raid on a tank any will do fine. If you raid a tank still box your zerker.

    If you want to raid your zerker raid your zerker. Bard, you cant go wrong as a 3rd box and war sk or pal would be fine as a box tank.. I box bst bard pal and rarely look at my bard unless im hitting adps tools. I just play the pal and bst with bard melodying in tow and pull 2 - 8 mobs at once (8 mob limit on paladin AE agro tools) 1 cleric merc 2 wiz on burn and have no trouble.
  9. eqgamer Augur

    Think warrior equals less clicks than Sk too, which helps free up time for your other toons. Don't hold me to that though as its been while since I boxed war as main. It's been clr enc Sk wiz Mage sham for last 8-9 years. And past couple years just enc sk and wiz. Getting old. And lazy. And tired of mashing 6 key boards :--).
  10. Repthor Augur

    It depends if when you box you most ly pay attention to your zerker. Then warr is the toon you want. Sks and pals are stronger group tanks then warrs but only if you activly play them most of there abilitys needs to be spammed to take Advantage of it. Warrs wile also to be the best you can be also needs spamming but they are the most sturdy passive . So if you gonna half a tank you will get further with warr
    eqgamer likes this.
  11. Tucoh Augur

    I box a war/bard/mage.

    Boxing a warrior got a LOT easier in EoK because of Harmonious Expanse. Every (5k+) heal you get, you generate 8k aggro on everything around you. If I pull three mobs, I can pretty much just get aggro on one mob, possibly hit an AE ability (stormstrike, rampage) or manually aggro another mob, then once I get a couple heals on me it's pretty much GG for aggro for my boxed team.

    I think you'd be just fine with a warrior + enc + zerker, and you could choose to focus on any three of those to good effect. If you don't have a preference between your enchanter and bard, I'd recommend a bard because of track, pulling and selo's speed, but the enchanter is great too and has other stuff they bring to the table. A lot of the group game right now is killing named mobs for loot, I wouldn't have half the gear I've gotten without track, and some of the camps I've done would've been a lot slower if I haven't been able to use all the tricks a bard has to pull.

    On some tough missions you'll be limited by using healer mercs, and will want to bring in another player as a healer.

    >Can a SK with top end group gear do most everything needed in order to do progression and go back and do older content as well?
    Yes. EoK group gear is amazing.

    >Would a warrior in full group gear be more stout in the group game than a SK? Would it even matter?
    If you're focusing on the SK and use a healer merc, the SK probably has more survivability due to taps. If you're focusing on the zerker or have a player merc, the war probably has more survivability. But the gap is not huge.

    >Should I just raid with my tank so they are super stout and just try to maybe someday get a raid weapon way down the road for my Zerk
    If you love your zerker that much, you should definitely focus on them. In some raiding guilds they get their mains geared out in 4 months after expansion, and then they gear up alts. But I think your main will always be better geared than your alt.

    >Is there even a demand for SK's in the raid game?
    Yes. I think there is more demand for berserkers right now, they are OP.

    >Should I scrap all that and run zerker, shaman, bard, which all have their epics and just be a zerk monster?
    No. I wouldn't run sha+bard simultaneously. Same with enchanter.

    >Would trying to raid with my zerker and having a group geared tank hold me back from doing basically any and all/group content?
    No. Biggest thing holding you back would be whether you have people to do group missions with. Doing group missions solo and without a raid geared tank is possible but not trivial.

    >Should I say screw it all and just play my zerker by itself?
    If you've got a regular group that has a healer / tank, sure. But even if you do, they won't want to help you go farm TDS augs, they aren't going to want to do CotF progression, there will be a lot of stuff you want to do that only benefits you, and having a boxed team makes it a lot easier. It's also easier to start a group if you've got a tank (or healer), even if you want to replace said tank/healer asap.
    moogs likes this.
  12. SevrinSevendust Elder

  13. SevrinSevendust Elder

    "No. I wouldn't run sha+bard simultaneously. Same with enchanter."

    Sorry, not a pro with this forum. Ment to ask further opinion in that specific statement. Thanks.
  14. Tucoh Augur


    This isn't a definitive opinion, I'm not an expert on enchanters/shamans, and I think that running an enc+bard, sha+bard, enc+sha can all be just fine. Bard, enc and shaman are unique and offer their own set of tools to help you.

    However, if you're three boxing, you've only got three slots. Generally having a tank fill one of those slots is ideal (but not necessary!). If you assume you'll fill one of those slots with either a bard, enc or shaman, your choice is really a second of those vs a DPS. I think you'll be hard pressed to make a better three man group with two of those classes instead of 1 of them and 1 DPS.

    Said differently, all three can slow, bards/enc can give mana to your group, bards/shamans/enc can buff melee, bards/enc can buff casters, they all have group burns. Bards have track/selos/pulling, shamans can heal, enchanters can CC (bards can too, but not nearly as well).

    If you're attracted to the healing of a shaman and wanted to heal with them, I'd rather have a shaman + DPS than shaman+bard/enc. And if you wanted the bard, I'd rather have a bard+cleric than bard+shaman.

    So while they offer unique abilities, there is a lot of conflict, and you'll want a real DPS character to bring the heat instead of relying on mercs.
    SevrinSevendust likes this.
  15. moogs Augur

    Enchanter = legit DPS these days.
    SevrinSevendust and eqgamer like this.
  16. Powerranger Journeyman

    Okay once again thanks a lot for the advice. My toughest choice will be picking who I want to raid with. I think I'm going to have to just play for a bit and decide once I hit 105 etc.. One last question and maybe a follow up.

    Can a 105 warrior with raid 3500ish hp gear in most slots tank in EoK do you think? Or even come close to killing names? Or would I have to go back and try to gear up in TBM or what is the best possible route to take to make him beefy enough? He's got decent augs from RoF and cotf era. How should I go about being strong enough to kill named? It's kinda like the chicken or the egg thing. I need better gear to kill current named but to kill current named I need better gear.

    Anyhow, I have a 3 day weekend this weekend so I'll definitely give things a shot once I get my boxing set up and remember how to play the war a little bit.
  17. Sikanle Lorekeeper

    You said the War was COTF1 raid geared? I bet you could tank T1 EoK nameds if you can burn them before your good discs run out, or get a real cleric in group. Warlord's Tenacity would give you current tank HP for 2 mins.

    Can also buy the currency in baz for TBM group gear. Not really much of an upgrade from COTF1 Raid gear though, other than the jewelry that has ridiculous AC.
  18. Tucoh Augur

    Assuming the warrior has the important AAs you can absolutely tank in EoK with that gear and kill most nameds.

    A war/berserker/enc group where the warrior has CotF raid gear should be just fine for starting EoK. You might need 2 healer mercs on some of the tougher named.
  19. skabe Elder

    shrug i have seen an Ench 2 box team rip through all of EoK with exception of a few named with the Enc rune tanking.
    War Ench Druid 3 box crew rip through everything with the war the raid main.
    Sham Bard Zerker trio handle all but a few named that require some luck to rip through.
    Mage Enc Druid 3 box crew tearing it up.
    Admittedly these examples are all with one raid main TBM geared. But i do know of a recently returned warrior and cleric in CotF raid gear that is having no issues in EoK to speak of really other than lacking dps.
    Point is pick the class you find is most fun to raid on then build around that. Enchanters are in great shape atm and have seen them moloing with charm pets in last 2 expansions for AA. Zerkers are OP dps right now and don't expect that to last but both classes are in demand. Rangers are in pretty damn good shape dps wise as well so might also be in demand. IDK where all the Beastlords went but lot of folks looking for them. As always Shaman and Cleric are in high demand.
    Some of the named and trash mobs in EoK have a ton of hps so moar deeps always good.
    Tier 2 EoK visibles for Bards was 300 AC more and 1500 HPs less than the TBM raid set and running about 2/3 to 3/4 for heroics and mod 2s so I would think any class with the right augs would be ok .. not great but ok for getting into a raid guild with tier 2 EoK gear and being able to function without spending all their time in a death loop.
  20. fransisco Augur

    you can call any class OP when it is in raid gear. Wizards can tank group content in raid gear.