Necro swarm pets since the patch

Let's nerf druids..... because they are so good at....ummm.... hmmm... give me a minute....

They're all like crabs in a bucket. Crabs in a bucket I tell you! Let me know when you guys figure out a more civilized way to discuss class balance issues in which you respect each other.

So the necromancer class went through three large changes. Most of the ones I spoke to/heard from understand the Manaburn change and accept it for what it is.

So here is my thought. If the other two changes (swarms and something necro related that I don't know what it does to be honest) never got implemented, would necromancers still be up in arms like they are today?

The prevailing thought seems to be a 25-33% reduction in overall parse DPS from necromancers. How much of this is attributed to the Manaburn change? If a significant portion of the reduction is because of Manaburn change, which seemed to be commonly understood and accepted by the necromancer class... Then what is with the fuss about raid parses?

The one thing you accepted and understood, is the one thing that possibly is the significant cause of parses being lower. I suppose you can understand and accept something and still complain about it. But I am curious how much Manaburn lowered your overall parse.

Keep in mind unlike other posters I am not anti necromancer. When I saw necromancers from other guilds talking about near 600k DPS parses in 90 seconds because of Manaburn, well that seemed wrong to me. There is already a serious problem with a specific class that will dominate any parse regardless of length due to their ability to regain mana in so many ways that they can not run OOM, hence essentially having unlimited mana for any raid event. Necromancers burning for 600k in 90 seconds is also a problem, that I feel most knowledgeable necromancers accept as broken.

Here is my big issue- no one knows anymore what a short/medium/long event is. A wizard should finish first on a short event, a magician on a medium event, and a necromancer on a long IMHO. This is 1999 Everquest. If you are going to maintain that philosophy (which again no one knows because no developer in 2016 will come out and say what they envision each INT caster class to do) then it needs to happen that way. Maybe these Necromancer changes will "fix" short parses with Manaburn. The next "fix" then has to ensure that the Necromancer wins on the long event. But again, no one knows what is constituted as long and short anymore.

You have a lot of confused players who feel their class should be best in every situation because no one knows otherwise. Class composition is being blurred with abilities, unlike back in the day when you knew you could solo on a necromancer but could not on a rogue. You knew you could share kite on a wizard but not as a cleric. You knew you could pet tank monsters as a magician but not on a druid. But everything is changed, everything is blurred, and no one knows what to believe. So we all just believe we should be first, and when we get knocked out of first then we are angry and upset.

Once again, it comes down to a lack of communication. Improve that, and you improve your game and your subscriptions...

They tried this during the beta of cotf iirc. They broke necros then to and reverted the changes. That was when they said they like where necro dps was and how it was done.

And to clarify not all necros use that many spells just the ones who know what they are doing and do it well. I don't call it broken, I like that it takes skill to do it right.

Leave mana burn nerfed in and take out other nerfs and this thread wouldn't exist

There's two things really at play here. The first is that the nerfs to GoDR are a kneejerk reaction because of the insane mana burn parses. This is what sticks in most of our craws the most, because the changes backpedal intentional design decisions about these abilities that were communicated to us by the devs to be working properly. They also represent a substantial lost in DPS.

The second thing is that Mana Burn is the most broken DPS ability probably ever introduced in this game. It was particularly broken for DoTs, because one round of DoT ticks would instantly eat up as many counters as there were DoTs on the mob and would lead to massive parses and the ability for necros to burst way more than they should. However, not having it work on DoTs doesn't fix the fact that Mana Burn is still horribly overtuned and broken; it just means that it's just not broken for necros anymore. I've heard rumors of bards in a certain guild burning for 300K on a sub 60 second parse. Given that the majority of bards DPS (to my knowledge) comes from procs, it's not hard to see why they are able to parse so high. So necros get an unneeded nerf to their DPS, are locked out of the benefits of the most powerful ability in the game, while almost every other DPS class (including even support classes) still benefit. Obviously Mana Burn was broken for DoTs and needed to be fixed, but fixing it just for necros when it is obviously still broken for everyone else seems to be a bit silly, no?

We'll just have to see how well a Wizard we all know is able to prevent his class from being nerfed.

O I agree that Manaburn is beyond over powered and broken in so many ways. And I play a class that benefits from it. Any reasonable player knows and understands just how broken it is.

And no there should be no reason for a bard to burn for 300k purely on the basis of one ability from another class that seriously should not have any form of ADPS. Maybe that needs to be the next fix, but that discussion is for another thread.

Question- if Manaburn change was the only change, would necromancers be comfortable and fine with the patch changes?

So.. by saying they should put shared lockouts on spell lines, you are saying Necros should cast their current spells, and then wait, or nuke, until they wear off before doing something useful again? Because casting the spells again before they are about to wear off does nothing but waste mana. Or are you suggesting that the new spells should also have shortened durations so that they will keep us busy, like say a nuking class is? So I know, why not just get rid of Dots and make us all Nuke... oh wait, then necros are just mages with weaker pets.

Posts form people that don't main necromancers or play very casual ones are obvious, since it is clear that they don't understand how Necros work, with their simplified "solutions" to the perceived "problem"

I don't think any necro really likes the idea of there being this horribly OP ability that works for pretty much everyone else but us. But, we all knew the Mana Burn fix was coming eventually. If they hadn't nerfed swarms and GoDR you wouldn't have a fraction as much necro rage as you are seeing now.

I'm sorry, folks. It's all my fault. Every class I played seriously got nerfed so I switched to necromancer recently. Made it to 101 before this one. I'll just go back to lurking and chatting.

Yes lets force them to only use new dots but then we will complain again when they can burst for 600k like what happened when they tried it in beta a few yrs ago. Yes lets force them to have no way to adjust for raids that won't allow you to use half your spells because they heal the mob or its immune to a resist type. Yes lets force them to be unable to go back and farm old raids like other classes because they won't be allowed to stack 6 corruption spells or 6 fire spells to get around a mobs immunity or whatever. Yes lets completely reinvent the class just because the forum know it all said so rather then developing content and boosts for all with the limited resources we have left.

I would have quit long ago if my class was simply doing the exact same thing in any scenario while spam clicking a multibind button paired with a few burn clicks.

Mana burn is perfectly tuned as Bei wanted. Its completely working as intended when you can click a 1k nuke clicky and get 200K bonus damage from mana burn if your under burn. Or when you take a 1200 damage proc and turn it into 50k in damage.

Yes if manaburn was the only change I would guess most if not all necros would be fine with their class. Waiting for the hammer to drop completely on mana burn, scarlet cheetah, zerker dicho, bard dicho and a few other insanely powerful abilities lurking around.

Even Bei (begrudgingly) admits it should be removed from the game.

One thing that needs to be said during all this discussion about how "insanely OP" Mana Burn is, is that it's not just "an ADPS ability." This isn't just an activated ability with no penalty, and a cooldown timer; it does cost 60,000 mana. In that respect it's more like giving other people your damage, than just providing ADPS.

That said, if something like that should even exist at all, I don't really see why any one class shouldn't benefit from it... I suppose you could say that DoTs... extract too much benefit from it over a certain span of time though.

Also anyone paying attention would know Beimeith isn't exactly the biggest fan of MB.

If they just did mana burn I would still be playing

The other casters say, "You're breaking my heart."
Maybe they decided that twin cast was a mistake all along.

That was a lie.

No, I had personal experience with it. It's a fact that when you start pulling 30-40 monsters at a time, the area begins to experience internet problems. Ever seen a 100+ pull? You start seeing their graphics move before they do. It was bad.