those of you who have rules about the number of dots that can be cast by your necros on raids please share so I can show them to the other officers. were going to have to come up with some rules with 6 necros on our raids all clogging the debuff slots.
Tell your debuffers to quit screwing around and stick the debuffs asap instead of eventually. No need to throttle the necros. Debuffs not worth casting asap are debuffs not worth casting at all.
Field other dps classes rather than 6 necros, 4-5 is about the cap if they are doing what they are supposed to dps wise. Short of that.... No dot proc augs. No items with dot procs. No dot clickies. No non dps classes dots. Or no dots other than necros. No non essential AA clicky dots+ (tiny things for hate, short lived small debuffs, etc).
No DoT proc sympathetics are huge, use only nukes or none at all. Debuffs make sure your chanters, druids and shamans get their debuffs on the mob ASAP. Tash / Malo / Slow / BoRo / Ice x2 / StF / Cripple / Deep Sleep Roughly all you need for debuffing. As Tobynn said... they need to be applied in the first 15 seconds, not the first 15 minutes. The other 50-60 slots should be necros. But yea 6 would be extremely tough to handle on a single mob... would be a god-send on multi-mob events though.
Well some debuffs are short lived and so much more important than the bottom dots a necro casts. Say for example you have 3+ rangers and somehow they goof and Called Shots drops and they can't get it back on. Sorry but you just lost more dps than those necros are doing with that one dot even if it was their most powerful one. Funeral Dirge would be another one I guess. This is a team based game, play as a team or screw up as one just because some people don't want to play along. A necro does something like 16 dots right now, doing some first grade math that puts us at about 4 with some wiggle room. Anyone recruiting 6 just plainly did it wrong and they grabbed 1-2 benchwarmers depending on the event.
That or get the Devs to finally boost the hardcap of spells slots that can land on a mob. I know there was some old discussion about coding but it would be nice by now going into lvl 100 to boost this.
Personally I'd prefer simplifications that don't require 15-18 dots per necro in order to maximise your dps. It's daft IMO that a class needs to keep continually swapping spell sets during a battle. Easy to implement via a variety of methods (much bigger dots but ones which lock out older equivalents, or bigger dots but correspondingly longer cast times so dps is unchanged, etc - a choice of ways). The problem is I doubt any necro would accept it and will instead keep banging the drum of "MOAR DEBUFFS", so instead the problem is just a stalemate.
Needing more than 15 dots to maximize your dps is a misconception. A terrible one. I would wager a big pile of RL cash that I can do better dps with 14 than 95% of necros can do with 18-20. Dots past 10 or so are a marginal dps increase compared to stacking your burn better. They are still much better than the garbage other classes call dots but it would be better overall for those necros to drop older dots and just add another necro in. According to my latest optimal burn fight, (120s or so) I have 5-6 current expansion dots that each separately are each more dps than all my pre-VoA dots combined. This is of course outside of CT and RoI, which have the only necros I know of that can gain more from stacking dots than changing their burn order. There are likely more necros but either they do not link parses or are vewwy vewwy qwuiet.
sure does separate the good from the bad. all our necs want to spellswap but only 2 seem to know what they're doing. the others are okay and one who came back from retirement is not so good.
Ask them if they use GoDR ... Some Necros , even in top 5 guilds, still don't get it to this day. Depending on Event I run 11-14 DoT's.. I do not ever see a reason to run 18 DoT's..and those that run 18 Have their cast order fubar'd. Casting in terms of Length of DoT lowers your dps. More does not necessarily mean better. Usually the one's running 18 do not use Gift and hardly ever break 50k. If they run more than 18, then contact a GM. I tend to err on the side of caution with linking parses because of some loudmouths, but it's not like Necros are wrecking parses and winning every event. As far as Debuff limit, This is long overdue. Pushing it to 100 seems reasonable and I am sure one Dev can take one day out to fix this in the coding. With MoB HP and event difficulty at the stage it is. Someone can go back and swap a few numbers to fix this. I will gladly have them take one day off RoF tinkering and spend all day fixing this, if need be.
Coming form a necro who at one point was in a guild that avg 5-6 necros a night and sometimes would have up to 8 on raids. I will say any more then 4 or 5 max is enough. It was a pita. The guild leader made a rule saying no other class could cast any dots on mobs and that the necros had ot split the remaining slots on mobs between us. (ie the more necro on a raid the less dots each necro was alowed to cast). Granted the gl/rl of the guild loved having a ton of necros cause the necro crew was the core of the dps the guild had on raids.(its bad when the necros are out parsing ever other dps class on ever figth cause in the words of one wizzy in the guild "i should beable to cast 4 spells(as in 4 total cast not chain casting 4 spells only) on a mob and still out dps everyone") I was so glade when i got out of there and found a guild with people who knew how to play their toons.
I won't pretend to know what the code looks like but it is possible that it could take a lot less than a day to make this change (it is a change, NOT a fix, btw). It might (MIGHT, I say) be as simple as changing one line of code it a header file. It is possible (POSSIBLE, I say) that there is a line of code like: #define MOB_BUFF_DEBUFF_TABLE_SIZE 75 If something like that exists there is a good chance that all that would need changing is the 75 in the line and the rest of the code once compiled would take care of everything else. It would, of course, take days of testing to verify such a change didn't break anything. If it does break something it may take days or even weeks to find the offending code to fix any breakage. But that wouldn't be the issue. The real issue is this has a potential of affecting performance. This simple change would increase memory allocations and processing requirements for buffs/debuffs by a third FOR EVERY MOB IN THE GAME. I am not saying it can't be done. I am not even saying it won't be done. What I am saying is that it is going to take longer than everybody assumes even if it is only one line of code that needs changing.
The one thing I wish they would do is give out a resist blurb or spell fail when it bounces off a mob with the slots maxed out.
If that the case then I could just be missing it because of my filters though I am pretty sure I have seen it regularly in other non raid cases.
Well consider with raids that you can't see about 1/3rd of the debuff slots so they are likely open. Believe me if you have a necro and hit the cap they will complain, loudly.
I am sure this has been brought up before, and I may be chastised for even mentioning it, but perhaps they could just change the playstyle of the necro class to not need to maintain 18 (whatever #) dots each. I am not a hard core player by any means and have never raided enough where the debuff limit came up, but do other classes have to use that many nukes? I think they mostly use like 3-4 main nukes with other situational spells...? Give the necros like 3-4 main dots and make the others just situational. Just my $.02
be cool if they stacked and incremented, similar to how other buffs have stacks that decrement. There's probably some logic as to why that doesn't work that I don't remember, though. This is not a new topic.
