Necro Dot Revamp

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Anotherday, Jun 11, 2018.

  1. josh Augur

    I heard you like necros so i necro'ed your necro post.
  2. Lheo Augur

    Fixing Necrodots would easy: make one poisiondot, one firedot, one illnessdot, and so one, put the damage of one damagegroup in one dot, make it costs the same mana for the simple dots together , plus 3 oder 4 swiftdots, problem solved :)
  3. Duder Augur

    So what is being asked for? If its a cry for more dps then I disagree. If its about not having to mem a bunch of lower spells then I imagine the only "revamp" you could expect is possibly when new spells come out in a level increase expansion where they may retool things.
  4. Ninelder Augur

    Make it so when I have four Necros show up for raid, it won't lower everyone's dps/tank survivability/ect. Yes even pure melee DPS suffer as they will buff block AC debuffs. No one is immune to the misery this crap is causing...
  5. Brohg Augur

    Welcome, sir, to a conversation that's been running for 3 actual years without including mention of more dps. If yours is a good-faith query, I recommend reviewing the discussion that's gone on in the Caster class forum.
  6. Dewey Augur

  7. Zaggran Journeyman

    I'm still salty that when they nerfed shammy DoTs they kept the mana costs the same. =/
    Raccoo likes this.
  8. kizant Augur

    The last big change was on 3/14/2018 where they lowered mana costs to line up better with the previous reduction in damage. Some dots even increased their damage while mana was lowered in the last update. What were you referring to?

    https://spells.eqresource.com/history.php?id=44299
    https://spells.eqresource.com/history.php?id=44347
    https://spells.eqresource.com/history.php?id=44335
    https://spells.eqresource.com/history.php?id=56466
    https://spells.eqresource.com/history.php?id=56478
    https://spells.eqresource.com/history.php?id=56514
  9. Ibudin Augur

    Yes, lets push this to over 23 pages for another necro dot discussion.

    Should just let necro dots of like type stack on top of each other, instead of taking up a slot for each dot. Its not like when you have 30 melee beating on a mob, the mob doesn't go - hey you have 5 to many melee hitting me so lets block your hits....

    Its more about the lack of available debuff slots on a mob, and less about necros having to stack old spells to be a viable DPS class.
    Ninelder and Allayna like this.
  10. Ninelder Augur

    That is a brilliant correlation and maybe(?) a possible easy fix.

    Would love to know if the devs have even thought of that.
  11. Allayna Augur

    The answer I received from the Devs was to the effect that increasing debuff slots on a mob was not a viable option due to coding complications and added lag.

    I would think that this would make revamping the necros dots a priority as it would then ....decrease lag?

    I like the, "melee are not limited" argument. Bringing 4 necromancers on a single raid target is wasted. This is not the case for any other class. Bring 6 zerkers or 6 wizards and see how fast a mob dies, this is not the case for the necromancer.

    Let's put all these necro dot revamp threads to bed. Let's have a revamp before you release TBL 2.0 in December. Make the commitment to finish what was started.
  12. Siddar Augur

    The entire DoT revamp was a bust. It was fundamentally flawed from the start. The changes proposed were so big and complete that there was no way to implement then without a massive tear down and rebuild modification to the necromancer class.

    I'm sure that more then one Dev has looked at the issue by now and reconciled in horror at the mess that it would make in class balance. The amount of work they would have to put into remaking the necromancer class does not make changes viable as a use of limited dev time.

    The problem is that the DoT changes Aready given. Along with alliance spells eating up raid mob debuff slots. Are equally unacceptable if necromancer DoTs are not upgraded. So we continue with this waiting game until devs are willing to admit their mistake.

    At the current time this failure to acknowledge that DoT change has been a massive failure in its entirety is saving work time for devs. They can both ignore the current problems and put off dealing with other problems with the excuse that they have finish DoT changes first.
  13. ~Mills~ Augur

    I agree with what they have done for everyone else was a bust. They took spells for some classes that are not even dps classes and multiplied their damage by 50 in some cases. However there are a few proposed methods that would work just fine and require no such rebuild of the class.

    Option A is Dzarn drastically boosting the bonus damage provided by lingering death AA line for shorter dots and leaving it flat or much smaller for longer duration dots. While at the same time Aristo flags necro dots to no longer stack with prior versions from individuals (aka you can only use one 30s fire dot, one doom dot). Add a mana aspect similar to what Aristo was doing ie 100% increase to damage costed 75% base cost, making it more efficient but still a ton more expended. This gets the class doing more damage faster with more mana expenditure while reducing their dot lineup power in total to offset the front loaded improvement. Way less work than option B.

    Option B multiple devs, assistants, whomever help Aristo with the proposed ideas of zero bonus damage for necros being added but just consolidating whats already used. So 18 dots condensed into 10 with the first 2-3 being much larger dots in single casts and then later dots left flat or only slightly increased so that over all dot base damage in total is reduced to offset ramping up faster. Does the same thing but a lot more work as he has to adjust 500 dots instead of a single AA tweaked on multiple lines.

    Regardless it is beyond silly that people keep claiming necros need a rebuild for this to happen because they would be over powered or critical to often. When the reality of the game is berserkers also critting at an 80% rate only it comes from Hdex mudflation while also bursting for 1,400,000 and sustaining as well as a necromancer unless there are multiple targets to dot. Rogues are not far behind in crit rate. And multiple other dps classes can burst for giant amounts and sustain right with others regardless.
    Allayna likes this.
  14. Siddar Augur

    Bah lost response after typing it.
  15. Dewey Augur

    This would be awesome. Do it for all debuffs. Just put a counter in the bottom with how many are on it.
  16. ~Mills~ Augur

    We crit to much? So do others both melee and casters.
    Our crit mods are to much? Others mods can also be very high. So again you take what necros already do and combine it, not take a 5k dot and make it 25k randomly.
    Focus crits for dots? You account for this and combine whats done already without bonus damage. All you are doing is taking what was 3 casts and making it 1. And to keep that in check some what was 10k in base from later dots becomes say 4k. So dot power in total is lowered but its front loaded.

    Berserkers hit 1,400,000 in burst and I have seen 500k out to 10 minutes and have 80% critical rates over the coarse of a night when you mix in their hdex, self clicks and raid stuff. They aren't threatened to be retuned because they have high crit mods, cripple mods and giant base 2h weapon damage.
  17. Siddar Augur

    There are several interrelated issues involved here if not more. One being the changes effect all DoT's from level one to 110. That increases amount of time required for these changes immensely. Second is what necromancer will do with all the time you open up for them on raids. They only cast DoT's now removing ability to stack DoT's from prior level and then adding potential that even different line of DoT's will no longer work with each other only compounds this issue. Enchanters, Druid, Shamans all have other things to do when they're not casting DoT's. In fact they still have their primary roles to carry out. Necromancer have no secondary roles let alone primary role when they're not DoTing. There is no way to reduce the number of DoTs a necromancer will cast from 20 to 10 and not end up making major changes to the class. Then you come to issue that any spell necromancer will cast has to be judged versus what other classed could do with that limited debuff slot. Other DoT's and Alliance spells set the minimum damage requirement for for necromancers DoT's.

    Really the whole idea fails from point one if I were dev. To much potential
    for everything to go wrong imposing a change by spread sheet across so many levels of play. When those level have been tuned by hand in the past. Things will ether go terribly wrong are they will require immense amount a dev work to get to something passable.

    Those are just some of the issues I'm sure there are more that I'm not think of.
  18. Whulfgar Augur

    Reading some of these posts.. almost seems like..

    First rule of necroclub..

    You don't talk about necroclub !
  19. ~Mills~ Augur

    So the option seems to be quit out of frustration eventually or pick 1 of the 5 or so other classes that have their cake and eat it too. Hoping the devs just don't have time to knock them down.
  20. Siddar Augur

    Yea that basically the same conclusion I came to two expansions ago.