Necro DoT Revamp

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Liljit, Apr 15, 2018.

  1. valiantSeven Elder

    Because you have a very unique way of making things about you (whether you intend to or not) by being a wiseacre about nearly everything. I said upfront my post would probably be ignorant because I don’t fully understand the Necro class, but it doesn’t mean this is my first day of EverQuest, either. I asked actual questions in my post, and instead of doing something like Allayna did to try and explain (thank you), it was an immediate “LUL, bro just stop there, you dumb!”

    I’m sure it is a very delicate and complicated issue. I’m sure it is/will require a mountain of work. I get there’s a pretty big difference between revamping a few dots for a class that has the option of using them versus revamping an entire class that does nothing but dot.

    That still doesn’t excuse the fact that there has been absolutely zero communication over a two year period, especially to very vocal Necros whom I’m sure would love nothing more than to help in anyway they can so their class isn’t phased out and completely worthless. It doesn’t excuse the fact that nearly every single class to be revamped was nerfed into oblivion because of a lack of testing and design (and that’s for classes that have just a few dots here and there, do it on the same scale as that for a class that is nothing but dots and the potential for broken damage values goes through the roof exponentially).

    I’m on EverQuest’s side here. I respect the work they do. I respect the tough jobs they’re faced with. However, looking at the track record of these revamps, there’s absolutely no evidence to suggest it’s going to turn out okay. The trend was: get revamped, be ungodly, get nerfed into oblivion.

    I may not be a necro guru or a dot guru, but that doesn’t make me completely unable to see that kind of workflow is pretty counterproductive. I really do hope I’m wrong for the sake of the game and the necro class, but by the time they’re done applying that same old song and dance that everyone else got, they’ll be starting right back at the drawing board and upsetting even more people and whatever Necros are left (again, truly do hope I’m wrong and it is done correctly, but since there’s been no communication at all whatsoever ... which I guess for some reason is excusable to you? ... there’s nothing that suggests otherwise).
  2. Ibudin Journeyman


    Being 1 of 3 necros in our guild, with no room for any other necro - which sucks for them...this is completely true. While we weave our dots, making sure nothing drops off (do this for ROS T2 raid ..last event for how many minutes? 20,000 hits) and enchanters can beat it or match the parse with 3000 hits. That is end game raiding - and that is messed up. I'll continue to play the class but its broken.

    I'd like to cast 3 dots, toss in some nukes, and heal my pet and crank out the same DPS as my carpal tunnel hands currently take by casting many spell sets of dots over and over.
    mmats likes this.
  3. Allayna Augur


    Please, do instruct the class...

    Clearly all the facts and information you bring to the table adds a great deal to the discussion.
  4. fransisco Augur

    throw a few dots and a couple nukes and top parses? Show me the parses of enchanters in the top 5-10 commonly?
    You could easily say the same about any class. Wizards just toss a few nukes and its off to the races.
    See what I did there? How about berzerkers just hitting autoattack and an ability every so often?
  5. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    Necros actually don't need their epic equipped while OoW Robe or Intensity are active as both should get them to over 100% DoT crit chance! But yea every class should just have their epic worn effect without level limit innately granted when you complete the 1.5, 2.0 and 2.5 achievement as an AA, similar to how DoN Progression or Hero AAs. Remove the focus from all Epic items and create Special AAs for each classes epic focus. This should solve the epic problem. For reference these are the 2.5 epic focuses (hybrid and Melee have same focus on their 2.0)

    Necromancer = 10% DoT chance
    Dru, Cler, Shm, Enc, Wiz, Mag = 8% Aggro Reduction
    Beastlord = 40% Cold Focus
    Ranger = 40% Nuke Focus
    Paladin = 40% Heal Focus
    Shadowknight = 40% Lifetap Focus
    Bard = 2.9 Instrument Mod
    Ber, Mnk, Rog = 8min reduction on DPS disc.
    War = 18% Aggro

    The obvious benefit of revamping DoTs to not allow same line stacking leading to Necromancers being able to cast other spells after they get through their main DoTs. Things like swarms, lifetaps, Nukes, Debuffs, mind taps, etc. Maybe the Reluctant Benevolence nerf was Phase 1 in their DoT revamp? Eventually they intend for Necros to use lifetaps again because they won't be going through 3 spell sets of DoTs.

    Unfortunately it would sort of require Necros relearn how to play their class as the revamp will change it up quite a bit from how it's been to play a necromancer the past several years. But change can be good.
  6. seber Lorekeeper

    WHY not fast fix now just take nef of the fast dot neco let do full damg on raids
    is 11k neco dot OP but 47k dot other class not OP ????
  7. fransisco Augur

    Because necros have the AAs to make an 11k dot hit WAY harder than anyone else can.
  8. Vaeeldar Augur


    Not particularly. Those AA's are across multiple classes. Necros do massive damage on raids because of the insane stacking of dots (mob is up long enough to stack 14+ dots). The issue with that is it means we can't get any dots with bigger damage which means we are utterly useless on the group game. I saw a necro say he was ok with 3 fast dots, 2 nukes, and skelly summon - frankly you would never get the nukes off in my box group and even with the fast dots off you are lucky if you do more than 2 ticks on any of them let alone all 3. NEcros just can't do good dps for mobs that last under 20 seconds.
    mmats likes this.
  9. fransisco Augur

    So necros don't have any burn abilities that affect their dots? :rolleyes:
    They also have more and higher ranks of passive dot AAs than other classes do.
  10. strongbus Augur

    I still say the biggest reason they haven't done the necro dot revamp is 1 thing.

    to keep us at the same dps output with fewer dots the base damage of each dot would have to be large. To the point that with just 1 or 2 dots we could keep pace with wiz/mages on short fights.

    Most everyone should remember the issue with fast dots when they 1st came out. On raids under burns with the fast dots hitting for max on raid mobs necro could be as good as wiz on short fights. That is why they gave fast dots 2 levels of base damage(one for raid mob and one for non raid mobs), as well as making it so some of our burns don't work on them.

    The dervs haven't figure a way to lower the number of dots we cast why at the same time not having us become wizards with dots.
  11. Siddar Augur

    Enchanters, Druid, and Shaman all have dots that can hit harder then top Necromancer DoTs.

    That's full burn side by side comparison. So your statement is wrong.
  12. Gnomereaper Elder

    When will we be able to achieve Super Lich 3? Or perhaps Super Lich 4. Or something beyond that Super Demi Lich Super Lich.
    fransisco likes this.
  13. Evurkvest Elder

    NEC have 15 DoT lines that hit raid targets for full dmg so doing the same type of rewamp that was made for other classes would be tricky. Spell lines would have to be removed to prevent NECs from stacking all 15.

    Personally im a fan of the idea to just slightly bump the dps on the regular dots and remove the shared timers on swifts and make them hit raid targets for full dmg.
  14. Allayna Augur

    Make them as mana intensive as Druid dots just were....1 month ago, give necros a reason to hit their group mana omgzl33tstufz.

    That would cap how much dps they could do by their mana pool and mana tricks, instead of mana being a non-issue.

    There are creative ways to make classes choose between mana and dps.
    Just saying, making all kinds of excuses for the devs for why it hasn’t been done yet....is just making their job easy.
  15. mmats Augur

    Merge necro and berserker classes. Kill two birds with one stone.
  16. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    Several of their DoT lines they cannot stack with previous lines due to Debuff components iirc. Those lines wouldn't see upgrades and would fall out of favor likely.
  17. menown Augur

    Several meaning 2. The Grip disease line and the Darkness snare line. Darkness doesn't even land on raid targets so no real change there.
  18. seber Lorekeeper

    and sham got 13 dots just saying they got dots update
  19. menown Augur


    Necros are like the complete opposite of wizards. If you were to boost wizard DPS in the raid game, they become completely ridiculous in the group game. If you were to boost necros in the group game, they would become completely ridiculous in the raid game.

    This is what makes balancing DDs and DoTs so difficult, and also probably why the wizards are so far behind in passive crit AA.

    There are ways around this dilemma. You could incorporate spells that scale, similar to the mage's "of many line". This was attempted for the necro class with their Swift DoTs, scaling down duration and up with damage, only for non-raid targets. Even mana burn scales based on the total HP of an NPC, making it lose a lot of the initial DD on low level trash NPCs.
  20. menown Augur

    I would still personally not use the swift DoTs, even if this were changed. Regular DoTs still do more total damage than the swift DoTs do. On raid targets that last long enough for regular DoTs to do their full damage, you would attain higher DPS with them, rather than the swift DoTs.

    The only advantage that swift DoTs have is their lower duration. So you may see an advantage against raid targets that have a duration less than 2 minutes with swift DoTs.

    Back in HoT, the expansion when these DoTs first came out, you would see a lot of shorter events and a lot of bad necros that would then excel. Swapping and casting 20-30 DoTs at a time really became popular in VoA, especially with added AAs and improved command features.

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