Necro Dot Revamp and The Issue with Chanters

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Dawdle, Feb 26, 2019.

  1. sumnayin2 Augur

    buff 15 instead of nerfing 1...lol
  2. Foaming I Drank Bleach IRL Once

    How long have people been asking for charm nerfs without success? Obviously it isn't working. The definition of insanity is to repeat the same action and expect a different outcome.
  3. Trackanon Elder

    I’d love to see the Necro dots addressed. Aren’t necromancers THE dot class?

    Before you add more emotes... fix the portion of the game you charge a monthly fee for.
  4. squidgod Augur

    Pretty sure they said a couple years ago that the DoT revamp project was abandoned and Necro DoTs weren't going to change. IIRC, the reasoning was screwing up balance on TLPs.
  5. Elemenopi Augur

    Nerfing charm would remove alot of the risk, which is why it is balanced. The narrative that it needs a nerf is based on its power against mobs alone without mentioning or considering the risk of charming a powerful mob.
  6. HoodenShuklak Augur

    Whoa whoa whoa...

    My definition of insanity is launching a slowest-exp TLP to date while your current POP-locked TLP is only fresh into Luclin!
  7. Accipiter Old Timer


    Yeah, but this new batch of posters is much smarter than the old batch.
    Foaming likes this.
  8. snailish Augur

    ^I'm trying to unpack this...

    Charm is not as risky as it was originally in early eras because magic resist checks were globally changed (I wish I knew when... if it was a Kunark or Velious change that reads different than if it was later by even a few expacs).

    Other factors that impact charm use (player knowledge, ease of gear acquisition, etc.) are hard to compensate for... and probably are better addressed by surgical changes such as mob X being highly resistant or even uncharmable rather than detuning charm spells or lowering effective levels of each charm spell for every class that charms...

    Somewhere along the line (since these things take time to do) the dev team decided that charm OoW moving forward would work differently and they severely crimped the power of pets, in content that already had way riskier mobs (i.e., really fast moving mobs that proc nasty things on you). They must of had reasons for not bothering to retroactive that... [granted eventually they made enchanters very powerful/capable again in the 75+ game --but there is a lull OoW to level 70s that they became a logged out buff box class for most players]

    ...my guess is they didn't predict progression replay of old content ever being a thing. Top heavy live servers who cares if charm makes 1-60 in the pre PoP world trivial as that content was vast and empty? Plus it was probably a bunch of work they didn't want to do --if the OoW charm pet change was an easy thing to toggle on to the earlier content I think progression would of already had it applied.

    So while I am personally undecided about whether charm should be retuned in some way for pre-OoW eras, I do see why this discussion comes up.
  9. Hinastorm Elder

    This ship has long sailed, they already have made tons of changes over the years.

    You are right, there is still so much more that needs fixing. And it should get fixed.

    Although your last point may have some merit, frankly. Some things are no brainers though, like adding 2-3 rogue daggers to classic so they aren't garbage. Thats an easy one.

    Personally, I think they should add a groupable, droppable, decent dagger, from hole or solb or something. Then add a fairly common drop raid dagger, from whoever. Then add a sky quest for the best one. Just spitballin here.

    The fact that rogues (and wizards) aren't the clear top dps, with their relative lack of utility, is just odd.
    Pirlo and snailish like this.
  10. ShivanAngel Augur


    http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=753

    http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=56442

    Those two daggers will let you put up competitive numbers.... will you top dps charts, maybe on some fights, but you will not be "bad dps". I had both those daggers one one tlp, and until I got my epic my dps was more then fine. I was right behind monks on longer fights/MR fights and behind monks/wizards on shorter/non MR fights.

    For ultra tryhard points, bandolier http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=3202 into your mainhand for backstabs then swap back to thornstinger mainhand/Bestratio offhand knew a rogue that did that and would occasionally top parses in classic. But its a lot of tryhard.

    Again BiS rogues do competitive dps, also wizards on fights where your "collective" dps lets you kill a mob before the wizard starts being mana starved/ sky mobs that resist everything you throw at them are right behind on par with monks if played well/dont get resist strings. Once kunark and epics come out on fights that dont last forever cause of "low overall dps" rogues will be right behind monks if they both disc. Double backstab also becomes a thing so there is a little rng there. With epic my rogue could double backstab for over 1000 non disc and break 2k while discing. Was not super common, but it happened. Rogues get a really bad rap because of how dependant they are on their mainhander, but they CAn be competitive.
  11. Thomasmgp Elder

    Half-Life 3 will come out before Necro DoT revamp.
  12. ShivanAngel Augur

    I love the necro class, but later on raiding with them is such a chore and not worth it for me.

    Cast dot_setup_pg_1
    Load saved spellset dot_setup _pg_2
    Cast dot _setup_pg_2
    Load saved spellset dot_setup_pg_3
    Cast dot_setup_pg_3
    Load dot_setup_pg_1
    Repeat

    What other class requires multiple saved spellsets just for one boss. My wizard had 2 but I only changed them once per boss.
    Twincast burn set
    Slow burn LoM set
  13. Neldarion Lorekeeper

    How about give necro's 68 spell slots instead?
    Ravanta Suffer likes this.
  14. HJC0083 Journeyman

    Charm is unlikely to be nerfed at this point, but I don't know how people can say, with a straight face, that it isn't incredibly overpowered in the first few expansions. Charmed pets do damage equivalent to multiple PCs while also tanking better than anything else, and the risk really isn't as high as some people would have you believe. Sure, there are times when you'll get inconvenient charm breaks that will drain your mana, and you will occasionally die because of it, but most of the time it's pretty smooth sailing. As long as you save enough mana for a long stun and gate, you can escape most bad situations.
  15. Hadesborne Augur

    Wait a sec here. This is ENTIRELY untrue. This was NEVER SAID. You are just assuming this false information.
    menown likes this.
  16. Rotlust Augur

    Necro dot revamp needed to happen a long long time ago. I hope it comes soon, better late than never.
  17. Velerin Journeyman

    Think people forget it was the more recent change that allowed pets to tank with players in range that really boosted encs. Now not only top dps but top tank too.
  18. PathToEternity The Janitor

    Wasn't the DoT consolidation promised around the 15th Anniversary, and here we are at the 20th waiting for necros to see it lol?
  19. Elemenopi Augur

    The two claims of:

    1. Charming needs a nerf due to the OP DPS against mobs with multiplicitively higher HP than a player character has.
    ...and...
    2. This tactic isnt risky.

    ...are a direct logical contradiction.

    People want it nerfed specifically due to the high DPS, which gets turned on the ENC when charm breaks. If that charmed mob is "shredding through mob HP totals with ease" that lowers the margin of error each time the charm breaks.

    Risk -vs- Reward balance in game systems is superior to sameness, or homogenization balance (the "your DPS cant be higher than my DPS" balance which destroys game systems that were once good). If people want it easier, they can coast their way through on a necro or druid, who can solo mobs without ever taking a hit. Charming **should be** more rewarding (more XP/time unit) as it is higher risk than kiting or fear kiting. This is true even if it is "less risky" than it used to be.
  20. Hadesborne Augur

    The DoT revamp was started for all classes 3 years ago. Why they didn't start with necros and then balabnce everyone else's DoTs from there is a question and unfortunately a moot one. We really haven't heard anything from the devs on this matter. With 2 more TLP servers starting up, there will be more people again choosing necros, then abandoning them post Luclin. The work a necro has to put in just to do HALF the damage of other DPS classes is shameful.