Nec/Sk Dot Revamps

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Nekk, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. Tubbycat Journeyman

    The only 'very long' event in RoS is ST3. If you're only doing 250k dps as a Necro, you probably shouldn't be opining on the future of the Necromancer class because you're terrible. If you app'd to my guild as a Necromancer doing 250k DPS on ST3, we wouldn't even accept your application because you're terrible!

    For ST3, you should expect Enchanters to push 350k+ DPS. DPS Druids and Necromancers should be pushing 400k DPS. If they aren't, you're terrible and your guild is terrible and you should probably take a remedial class in how to play Everquest because you're terrible.

    The only person that has posted reasonable parses in this thread is Shennron, and he's exactly right on what he says. Wizards (and to some degree Mages) are posting 600k+ DPS parses on Fell Foliage, End of Empire, ST1, ST2, and VP1.

    In agreement with Shennron, so far I've yet to see a Necromancer post a 600k+ DPS parse on ANY event in RoS, while I've seen Wizards & Mages do it on multiple events!

    One last thing... Many of you were complaining about the Druid DoT nerfs... Before the nerf, Druids were hitting 800k + DPS on some events, absolutely obliterating any competing DPS class. Even now, they're still pushing 400-600k DPS during RoS raids.

    The problem we have is that too many incompetent and utterly unqualified people are opining on the future class balance of this game.

    Garbage in; Garbage out. That's how we got here... Nobody wants to listen to those who have a clue how to play this game.

    Many of you know who I am, many of you don't. I don't care. All of you in reputable guilds know what I'm saying is true.

  2. Tubbycat Journeyman

    For whatever reason, Francisco thread craps every single thread regarding Necro DoT revamp or Necro gameplay in general. Let me make this clear: He's absolutely clueless; he has no idea what high-level Necromancer gameplay is; nobody in the Necromancer community knows who he is or cares what he says. He's a nobody acting as a somebody, and he's holding an entire class back with his nonsense.

    As always, if the Dev team cares for feedback on how to fix Necromancers, you're free to contact me!
  3. Tubbycat Journeyman

    Also, there's plenty of Necro parses available if you look. There's some particularly badass Necro parses available from RoTE and RoI.

    No excuse to suck... None. Plenty of resources available.
  4. Brohg Augur

    I don't think the resources you describe as plentiful and available are so to the parties discussing the game state here. Perhaps a bit of education would get more on side than simply deriding apparently ill-informed opinions.
  5. High Voltage Augur

    Oc, a well thought post from such a knowledegable and well known member of the eq community - oh, wait ...
    Sancus likes this.
  6. Sancus Augur

    "I watched RoI and RoTE twitch streams to see their parses and now have a massive epeen"
  7. Tubbycat Journeyman

    Twitch M8

    Those who need to know, already know.

    You sound like a nobody. That's sad. I'm sorry for your current situation.

    There's plenty of public 500k+ DPS parses from Necromancers on RoS raids.

    Again though, as Shennron said, Necromancers aren't hitting 600k+ sustained like Wizards and Mages.

    The problem is, the ONLY sustained DPS event in this expansion is ST3.

    If your Wiz/Mag team isn't hitting 400k+ on FF, /guildremove; 450k ST1, /guildremove, 350k VP1, /guildremove.

    Most of you guys have become complacent on suck. Sad!

    Here's the reality(albeit simplified): The better your guild gets (IE, the quicker raid targets die), the worse your Necromancers get (to an extent depending on wound timers etc).

    I'm not hiding. I'll probably have 50+ messages in my inbox when I log in for raids tonight!

    I also don't care. Everything posted above is accurate to the best of my knowledge. You're free to dispute if you like and I may or may not respond.

    If you can't get anywhere near the above posted parses, you're bad at this game and you should probably go and play WoW.

  8. Tubbycat Journeyman

    Buddy....:) Don't get me started on how OP Mages currently are! Heard there's some twitch dudes that like to get classes nerfed!
  9. High Voltage Augur

  10. kizant Augur

    These two statements don't go together. If Wizards could sustain 600k then you would think on a short event like ST1 that we'd be hitting way more than 450k, right? The only event where you see crazy numbers for wizards is ST2 because of the extra damage taken by the pile of bones/oozes.
  11. Tubbycat Journeyman

    Kizant, I do consider you a friend, and these numbers were obfuscated for purpose, as Im sure you're aware. You and I both know that ROI Wizards are pushing 700k on ST1.
  12. menown Augur

    My post was only made to explain that class niche disparity, based on fight duration, has become completely blurred. It is a terrible argument to use against a necromancer who wants to see a little more balance within the group game. Especially since it seems fight durations have progressively become shorter as the game progresses.

    The problem with the necromancer class has nothing to do with wizards, mages, zerkers, etc.. It has everything to do with how our own class has evolved in a different direction than the game. Fights become shorter and we gain AAs, potions, and focus effects to extend the duration of our DoTs. Fights become easier and yet we gain even more DoT lines that becomes necessary to stack and weave. Fights become more aDPS friendly and we are already almost at max crit rate on our own.
    snailish and Siddar like this.
  13. Tubbycat Journeyman

    Shennron, we're in agreement. As I said, the only 'duration' event in this expansion is ST3. Yes sustained / burst events have become blurred to the point of irrelevancy. As a result, the Necro 'niche' has disappeared. There are technical reasons for this (IE Cactus & 32bit limit).

    The only reason I'm posting here is because I just don't give a damn anymore. Yes, I'm a Necromancer in a top 5 guild. Yes, I barely bother to log in anymore and I'm on my way out. The class is hopelessly broken and the Dev team has showed little initiative in fixing it.

    If people want, I can post expected DPS values for RoS raids, I don't care... Necromancers will rarely be at the top of the list.
    Siddar likes this.
  14. xaga Elder

    Maybe @Aristo is working on it? Or maybe the dev team could grace us with some insight.....:cool:
  15. kizant Augur

    Sure but zerkers, enchanters, mages, etc can potentially all do 600k+ on that one assuming your raid's DPS is high enough so that it's only a 2.5 minute fight. I wasn't considering that 'sustained'.

    I'm not disagreeing that necros need some help and I'm not even sure what this thread is about. I just wanted to comment on wizard dps lol.
  16. Gnomeland Augur

    The situation with necros as a class is very depressing. I left the class fifteen years ago, and have been very glad for my choice, as all I've been seeing over the years is diminishing prospects due to neglect and lack of vision. To a degree, this is self inflicted, since the necro community decided at one stage to collectively try and hide their power from developers, leading to perhaps a lack of trust. But that doesn't justify not fixing the class's problems.

    Every class in this game has had its day, necros included, but there wasn't a single moment in the last 15 years when I thought - I'd want to be a necro right about now. There were moments of brilliance that the players came up with - using swarm pets to tank rare monsters, summon kiting, etc. - but these were all removed or diminished over time, and the class as a whole is poorly designed. Necros are the weakest pet class, have always been the weakest group DPS class, and what utility they did offer, have always been constrained to such an extent, that you wonder why they even bother.

    Take fear spells, as an example. In a game where you give paladins and enchanters the ability to permanently stun yellow monsters, why was it so hard to make a legitimately useful fear spell for necros? The attempt at reviving that line of spells carried so many ridiculous restrictions, it's no wonder necros stopped asking for anything similar after. Oh, and that poor attempt at an enchanter spell that necros got? It's nice when any adventure that scales is literally designed to be outside of your level limit.

    Then there's the persistent problem with group DPS, which has to my knowledge never been fixed. Yeah, there were expansions where it was better, and expansions where it was worse, but on the whole, there was never a consistent vision as to what necros were supposed to do in groups. Perhaps that was by intention - ie the class is supposed to play alone - but in that case, they certainly don't show it by being much better at molo than classes like magician, beast, enchanter, etc.

    That leaves raid DPS as the one area where necros can take refuge, where they can claim to be among the best. But now, it sounds as though even this benefit is gone. In an expansion where spell classes are significantly more powerful than most physical classes in raid DPS, necros are the only spell class that might actually be worse. Combine that with all the other problems of the class, and I question why you'd ever want to choose a necro. It's sad, because in a way, my first interaction with this game was through the necro class and I will never forget my memories of those early days. But even so, I can't but help feel fortunate that I didn't stick it out like certain other players have.
  17. kizant Augur

    Necro raid DPS is near the top. You're being silly.
  18. Gnomeland Augur

    Direct that to the person above, who's actually cited numbers. Like I said, I no longer play the class so naturally I don't have raid numbers to compare with. But I know how the class operates outside of raids, and it's in a terrible state.

    I'm not even personally invested. Rather, I see what the class can do when I encounter it out in the game and when, from time to time, I fool around on a side character, and it's just sad.
  19. kizant Augur

    Then you shouldn't be commenting. Shennron is always top 5. Just because mages are a little OP right now and encs can do similar DPS with less work doesn't mean necros are somehow *bad*. Especially when they can beat everyone else.
  20. Brohg Augur

    Tubbycat, it is disingenuous rather in the extreme to treat dps numbers seen in events shortened to RoI's standard as plain benchmarks. We appear to share a recognition of the best that can be achieved, but those performances are very much organizational; they're about the strength of the raid supporting that of the player. "Good xxxx" don't get 400k or 700k event dps -- "good wizards with 53 equally good teammates" do, and that's substantially different. It's fair to compare yourself to your peers, but that doesn't make your experience a game-wide reality. Another necromancer who knows just as much as you do playing in a different environment may stand unassailably atop their guild's parses while wizards and such see their numbers cut by a third, or a half, or more with longer fight times that accommodate a shadier application of adps.

    Then again, maybe the others don't know as much as you do. In which case a more common understanding would sure be helpful!
    fransisco and Sancus like this.