Nec/Sk Dot Revamps

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Nekk, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. strongbus Augur

    yes it would. atm most necros run between 14-20ish dots. the way the dot consolidation going work is you only cast the highest dot of each type. so that leave us a max of 13 dots if they take it form having each main dot line(fire/dis/pos/magic/mana drain/tap/corr/snare/swift) and only give us one line of each. which will leave us with 9 dots max.
  2. Darwinius New Member

    Why would they consolidate 3 distinct fire lines all into 1? at the very least we'd see a normal duration and a long duration, most likely all 3 stay seperate (30s/54s/1m24s lines), 2 poison lines, 2 disease lines, 3 magic lines (regular/wounds/scourge), 2 tap lines (single and group), Mana drain line, corruption, snare, dicho. I'm counting 12 minimum if they totally consolidate fire/poison/disease and upwards of 16 here

    Re: Sancus, that's a bummer, I haven't seen much of it, is it definitively server side or could it be client side with all the new filters being added and people not disabling the spam?
  3. Brohg Augur

    You say your version of a solution would solve nothing, and then ask why there would be some other version of a solution? Is this what the kids call trolling?
  4. Venau Augur

    I believe you may be on to something here lol. At least he's bumped the thread. Lemons into lemonade!
  5. Samben New Member

    Sancus already addressed this, but raid lag certainly is one of the most significant problems Necros (and others, esp Mages) are currently dealing with. This lag is server-side and causes all sorts of problems with spell casting, raid scripts, RS pets, regular pets, etc. Therefore, it follows that this lag also affects player parses, which happens to be why pretty much anybody that deals with it places much weight on parses at this point.

    That said, if you're north of 600k on Cactus or ST1, and 500k on ST3 or VP2, pls teech m3 gud k? Remember, free
  6. Beergoggles Lorekeeper

    By some of his comments it's pretty obvious he doesn't play a necro.
  7. Darwinius New Member

    Sure you do buddy, sure you do. Honestly though, that is a deal if you guys are running into that much lag, pet dps has always been pretty messed up on raids, but if it's at the point it's lagging your spell casts/swaps that'd be pretty annoying.

    I guess I am trolling to a degree, my only real purpose was to tell off all the whiners claiming Necros aren't good/are broken/may as well be deleted. Even Samben up here is claiming they're pretty stellar a few days after grumbling that the class should be deleted

    What comments exactly would lead you to the conclusion I've never played a Necro?
  8. Darwinius New Member

    I'm not a dev, my version doesn't exist. It's just the logical course they would take
  9. Darwinius New Member

    I'll let all of you get back to the "Necros suck" circle jerk though, best of luck with getting saved, maybe pop a line to Samben, he must've got it figured out!
  10. Volgare New Member

    Judging from previous DoT revamps I'd rather them not touch anything because it will either be huge outcry of OMG necros r so OP !!!, then nerfed to below current levels in a week, or undertuned and be left a sad husk of a class until every necro quits, and problem solves itself.
    Rizzin likes this.
  11. menown Augur

    None of the revamped DoT classes had their DoTs nerfed below their current levels! This was fake news back then and it still is today. Their DoTs are still quite a bit stronger than previous pre-revamp incarnations.
    Venau likes this.
  12. Venau Augur

    I wouldn't have a problem being over tuned and then knocked back a bit to a reasonable level. I'd be quite open posting parses, etc.

    As menown stated.....every class that was revamped still owns DoTs that are clearly more powerful as compared to before the revamp.
  13. Nekk Elder

    I know I'm not the best necromancer in the game. I do know however, that I am one of the top. I posted a parse without constantly using my burns to get a decent uninflated parse showing that we needed help in the group game.

    However, dude is right. Just pull another mob, stick your swarm pets on it and dot the crap out of it. Don't forget to refresh your swarm pets and fd between casts if it summons.
  14. Nekk Elder

    I already know people are going to comment that's not fair, you didn't use your burns the whole group etc... Well what's not fair is tank classes duel wielding on auto atk blow us out of the water on combined, burns or not. And yes, I have played a raid warrior so I know how to burn on one by now. Might not be even close to the best, but still pretty decent I'd say. Edit: Wars aren't the only OP class I'm talking about here either.
  15. Nekk Elder

    And before anyone mentions it, no, I'm not calling for a nerf to other classes. I just want dot revamps to be done in a decent manner.
  16. HoodenShuklak Augur

    Why not do it?
  17. Dahaman Augur

    Necros have... 18-20 DOTs they are stacking? I read above that there are 12-13 distinct DOT lines? That's impressive!

    I don't play a necro. I just had a potential consolidation thought. DOT consolidation, in the necro's case, sounds like it could take the form of a lessening of DOT lines too. Instead of 13 distinct lines, this could potentially be halved going forwards at least.

    For shaman DOTs, at low levels, only one DOT is needed for grouping, perhaps two for soloing and raiding. Necros could likely get away with needing 2-3 at those low levels. The answer could be to start out consolidating lines at low level, but don't consolidate all of them at once.


    Level 1-60 - the poison DOT (as shared with shamans) Venom of the Snake, etc. is already done, this is sufficient at these levels, consider it done

    Level 61-80 DOT - have a second DOT line start consolidating with a third DOT line to end-of-line eventually, absorb the damage and mana costs of both into the DOT to be kept, make both DOTs not stack with the previous DOTs in their lines

    Level 81-90 DOT - repeat the above with a fourth DOT consolidating with a fifth DOT to end-of-line eventually
    Level 91-100 DOT - repeat the above with a sixth DOT consolidating with a seventh DOT to end-of-line eventually

    Level 101-110 DOT - repeat the above with a eighth DOT consolidating with a ninth DOT to end-of-line eventually

    All of the remaining DOTs are made non-stacking from the get go, but don't have any damage or mana changes. These DOTs are great targets for debuffs, snares, etc.
    At Level 110:
    - necros have 5 consolidated DOTs that do above par damage
    - necros have 4 DOTs that will he phased out (not upgraded again)
    - necros have 3-4 DOTs for debuffs, etc.
    At level 115:
    - necros have 5 consolidated DOTs that do the damage
    - necros have 3-4 DOTs for debuffs, etc.
    Something like this might ease the overall effort by not requiring all DOTs to be done at one time. Smart consolidation can combine super strong DOTs with weaker DOTs to moderate DPS progression. Consolidating one line at a time (maybe one per monthly patch) can reduce the impact of over or under reach on DPS targets.
    I'm sure a level 110 super necro can make a list of the 18-20 DOTs stacked that can be used as a basis for the level 110 target DOTs to keep and consolidate. Once you have the level 60 and level 110 end points fixed, the middle levels should fall in from there.
  18. Ravanta Suffer Augur

  19. Ravanta Suffer Augur

    Sorry, I meant to edit my post with a little more background, but I got distracted and couldn't get it done in time before I lost the ability to edit it.

    And I lost the text, (using my phone at the moment) and not typing that up again on my phone, lol.

    Will bump this with more dead horse spam later tonight, when I can use a proper keyboard. :)
  20. Ravanta Suffer Augur

    As has been repeatedly stated, the class is fine. Aas are fine. Dot balancing for us is fine. Are we always the best? no. Should we be? no. Are we the best in specific scenarios that our class was designed for, assuming the player is competent? yes.

    That doesn't mean that improvements to the class could not be made, but we are in a good position.

    Like is common on this dead horse topic... suggestions to fix it, are usually presented that do nothing to address the problem, but the player. The actual problems are simple. There are two.

    #1 The detrimental slot number on raid targets is too small. Even if a raid is diligent about not using unnecessary debuffs, two competition necros can easily fill up a raid targets slots. Adding a third necro, or gasp, a fourth, is widely regarded as a downgrade to overall raid dps.

    All solutions to simple problems, should be simple, and address the actual problem. The simplest solution is to increase the number of detrimental slots that raid targets have. By a lot! Any raid with more than 2 competent necros…would likely be better off with 2 necros.

    It has also been suggested that dot spells could be designed to go into the same slot on the target. This may be more complex, but it seems to be an ideal solution. It opens up the option for an individual person to *within the UI* be able to see what dots they have on the target. I'm sure that most raiding necros either use Gina to track their dots, or they have an insane level of short term memory and timing. I know I can't keep track of the high number of dots I cast without Gina, especially on fights where I'm dotting multiple targets such as in the final stage of the sathirs tomb raid. (incidentally, this is also my personal favorite raid).

    #2. The system for memorizing spells is completely antiquated, especially for classes such as necros (shaman come to mind also) who need to cast a large number of different spells in an encountered, or whose roles change. We've made a lot of progress in this era compared to when we were level 10, but I feel it's time for another improvement. Spell sets can be great, but as they are now, we can only have 30 of them. Talking about this number limitation with non-necros commonly gets nowhere, because for them, they don't need more than 30 spell sets. A necro who wants to have spell sets for all raid targets in the current expansion, and sets for soloing or grouping, will fall into two positions. They will either have to use spell sets that involve memming non-ideal spells, or they will need to constantly update their spell sets. And then there is the reality of raid lag making memorizing spells take longer than it should. Let us also not forget that taking even a single point of ae damage will make us stand up. On some raids, I have on numerous occasions used AA harmshield for no other reason than to switch a spell set. /eyeroll

    I posted about this issue previously in this thread, but to summarize that…I think a pure caster perk at this stage of the game should be to be able to cast certain spells (those without shared or extended cooldowns) without requiring the spells to be memmed.
    Rizzin likes this.

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