Nec/Sk Dot Revamps

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Nekk, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. ~Mills~ Augur

    The problem is its handled by a single dev who has lots of other stuff on his plate pretty much always, its a massive amount of updating considering the amount of dots, ranks and era's it applies to and has grown gun shy from his mistakes in the past.
  2. xaga Elder

    Everyone should just start to message roxxy..... maybe she will make him answer us in some way :p
  3. Hadesborne Augur

    Well, at this point it has become a joke hasn't it. Prathun, help us out here: get Roxxy on task for us, spear head this revamp and forever be the savior of Necros. I have faith in you.
  4. Samben New Member

    Just go ahead and delete the class. At this point, I have about as much faith in Aristo as I do the Easter Bunny.
  5. javiere New Member

    I login to EQ once every few months to check in if necromancers have been done yet, see they haven't, log off - been going on for years - the whole argument of "do the hardest class last" was always going to land them in this position.
  6. Brohg Augur

    missin' a lot of fun, man
  7. Darwinius New Member

    This entire thread makes me /eyeroll, Plenty of Necros around that prove all of these complaints are extremely overblown


    /eyeroll

    as has been stated on multiple occasions, the class is fine, if you guys are having trouble performing as a Necro that's on you.

    Group DPS: Fine (even in fast groups, if you're just killing single targets in 10s maybe take initiative and pull your own mob that your bloody swarm pets can handle by themselves)
    Solo DPS: Great
    Raid DPS: Lol
    Utility: Rezzes/RB/Debuffs/Slow/CC/Emergency Invuln you can cast through, what else do you want?
  8. Venau Augur

    What else do we want? Merely what has been promised I suppose.

    At one point I did enjoy stacking massive amounts of DoTs. Sort of a flow type thing. As of now....I find it highly annoying that we must use an alliance spell and keep our skull up as a significant portion of our DPS. I dunno. For some reason the fun factor is lagging. I've heard the same from many other "try hard" necros.

    With the more recent lag that has occurred during raids....it's no longer feasible to swap spells between casts while enjoying an acceptable fun factor.

    I think if our DoTs were consolidated as promised there would be a more reasonable amount of "things" to monitor and maintain. This would increase the fun factor for many of us.

    Many of us ultimately play a game to have fun. And when that begins to lack......well......you get threads like this.

    I suppose you can continue to straw man us about performance issues. There are quite a few exceptional necros who have been involved in this thread. This should tell you something.......if you do indeed care.

    Is this about performance? Or is it about fun?
  9. Darwinius New Member


    Is this not how Necros have operated for 19 years now? If people aren't having "Fun" with the play style there's several other lazier options out there, why does the class need a massive overhaul to be Fun again for you?

    The silly thing about the thread is how many people claim the Class is "Broken", needs to be saved, and may as well be deleted

    How many "Exceptional" Necros are for or against it? The difference in outlook probably has more to do with age than actual skill level if I'd guess.

    The way I've read the thread, most people are concerned about performance, which I see no validity in. If your problem lies in the workload, well, what does Consolidation save you, 6-8 spells to cast? Would you not just start using the 2 lifetap lines/2 disease lines/secondary poison/undead and the snare line once they're respectable DPS? I don't think you'll find yourself doing much less work (If you're considering yourself exceptional) once you decide to just start using alternate spell lines and using swarm pets/FTV more.
  10. Venau Augur

    I really have no beef with anyone in this thread.

    It seems you do point out something that's potentially very telling.

    Difference in outlook. Maybe you're the old guy that resists change and attempts to fight it at all costs? I dunno. That's fine with me. Good luck convincing the majority I guess?

    I, for one, would like to see the change that was promised us. It could potentially be the catalyst for our class being more in line with things of the dead so to speak.

    You think the thread is about ease of playable performance? Less work for a decent result? There seem to be lots of casuals with this opinion. I like it. The more paying customers we have the better. Designing the game around raiding has and continues to restrict our base. But that's an entirely different topic.
  11. Darwinius New Member


    Honestly, will this even change anything? Like I stated in the last post, there's several unused DoT lines that would just be picked up instead and the difference would be like 1 or 2 spell gems that would just get dedicated to other things, Necros on raids will still be using multiple spell sets, unless they make literally every resist type only 1 DoT line, which I don't see happening. I'm just sick of all the whining that Necros aren't in a good place already, they're the best class in the GD game

    I'm not sure I understand what exactly you're stating in the third sentence, more in line with the dead? Could you expand on this?

    I think it's largely been about perceived lack of performance, I feel like I was pretty clear on that being my beef, people claiming the Necro class was underpowered and required boosting somehow. Early in the thread Nekkroh or something posted a parse of like 70k with pet dps and claimed to be one of the best Necros in the game and that was evidence Necros needed improving, that's not even HALF of what I've seen good Necros do in group settings that had way higher overall DPS/shorter kill times than his group. I don't know how Aura/Swarm Pets/Swift DoTs and self buffs is "Too much" work as it is, what's the end game here? Being as brainless as old school wizards? only needing to cast 1-3 spells ever in groups?
  12. Siddar Augur

    How is that different then now?

    We at most cast four spells per mob. With faster group reducing the amount spell we could cast.
  13. Darwinius New Member

    I'd hardly call any good Necro atm brainless, but they do take initiative and usually the group isn't single pulling, which is a complete waste of a real group that's killing "Fast", and they certainly cast more than 4 spells in a group, I'd say closer to 10 (Dicho/3xSwifts/Swarm Pet/1-2 Nukes/2-3 normal dots + Aura and rebuffing themselves/pets between mobs), nevermind the AAs/Clickies.
  14. Venau Augur

    I'm
    Yup. I'm sure it would change things. The faster ramp time of our longer duration DoTs would be a game changer on certain raid events and open up a new world with respect to grouping. It's really hard to be super specific here.....but from the current build of other revamped DoT classes......you can see less time is required to perform optimally casting DoTs and these classes can now cross over on certain raid events when things get sticky (adds maybe sometimes?)

    Yep. More in line with dead thingz. Here's a quote...it's a description provided by EQ..... "Necromancers are servants of the dark gods, studying ancient and mysterious tomes, to gain power over the dead." Are we really this anymore? Do we even have a recent DoT/ability to allow us to demonstrate power over the dead? It just seems lacking to me. We have the look. Our illusions to self and pet seem to match up. But our current build just doesnt feel right.

    I believe perceived lack of performance was addressed earlier in the thread. Perhaps I'm guilty of whining a bit also. Maybe a bit of burnout. I dunno. I'll admit it was a bummer trying to swap individual spells during global cool down for this last expansion. In fact I've stopped doing this. A fun wrecker!

    As far as measuring DPS goes......we can skew this to either side. I'll not argue anything you've said. In fact I agree with you. It's entirely possible...actually probable....that if a person takes initiative....the parses in raids and groups will be pretty decent. Some events.....clearly the best numbers produced.

    But now we go to the next point. As a community we seem very snobbish....almost dismissive to the casual base. I don't think this is wise. The game is stagnating with respect to player base. If we refuse to listen to the complaints of potential casual players that.....in a healthy situation.....provide the majority of income to EQ......then I think we are being short sighted. Maybe our ego is involved? Matter of fact.....if you stop and remove all emotion.......what does it say about the top performing player of each class getting an ego......based upon PLAYING A GAME! Sort of the attitude that goes something like this...."XXX is a bad player. I won't ever play with him/her." I find this attitude a bit humorous. And it's so very common at certain levels. There are probably a ton of great necros out there who simply do not have the time or desire to achieve everything that is necessary to pump out top deeps in all situations. Again.....if we ignore them....EQ loses money. EQ dies more quickly.

    Hmmm....I wonder what a necro will do with a dead EQ? (Pun INTENDED)

    Finally...Where's meh r3VamP?
  15. McDougal Augur

    Seeing what happened with other classes revamps I really don't understand this clamor for Necro ones. Necros were not really group or raid oriented originally. Most of them are gone now though and the game has simply moved on. Too bad from my viewpoint but that's how it is.
    Rizzin likes this.
  16. Darwinius New Member

    It'd change the raid game in that Necros likely get more involved on trash/adds. There's still Swift DoTs, which would concurrently be improved to suit their purpose, in this sense the playstyle in group would (should) not change much, there's a DPS boost for sure, but my viewpoint is that that DPS boost is completely unnecessary and that it's ludicrous watching all these people cry foul that the class is broken/useless somehow

    More bane DoTs/effects would be interesting, but that's an entirely different topic

    Here's my perspective, the class has been one of the hardest to play since the game was released, certainly the most difficult of the caster classes to master. Every attempt to pander to the casual base that can't make do with what is already a VERY generous skill set that's been given to Necros waters down the experience for the people who are actually competent at the class, it's kind of a shame the only people who voice their opinions tend to be the ones that are unhappy, but that's true of anything.The game is old, who exactly is flocking to EQ?Those who do find their way here have plenty of resources to either Improve or find something that suits them better (Mages are a far more simplistic Class that's perfectly capable of alot of the same feats) if they take the initiative to seek it. I've seen several Necros on multiple threads like this one espouse advice and offer their assistance (often getting crapped on for doing so), I wonder how many of these "Mayaswell Delete the class" goons have bothered to glean any of it? Meanwhile, if they tune the class to suit poorer players then suddenly Shennron is doing 30% of raid DPS in TBL? Sounds like a good time for the rest of us

    ..
    McDougal likes this.
  17. Darwinius New Member

    That said, Debuff limits are still one of the biggest failures in EQ
    mmats likes this.
  18. Samben New Member


    You have much to learn.

    Instead of rehashing the last 20 pages of this thread, I'll just say this: The fundamental class design issues that led to the dot revamp remain.

    1. DPS ramp time. It's bad. Everyone knows it's bad. In lower DPS raidforces, this is less of an issue. In higher DPS raidforces, this can be a major issue. Example: Gorowyn raid.

    2. Debuff limit. In many (most?) top guilds, this imposes a functional limit of two Necros per raid on most raid events.

    I'll also add a third, and this issue is somewhat new. The extreme lag present on many of the raid events this expansion can make hotkey spell-swapping difficult, and, at times, impossible. Venau has previously referenced this upthread.

    Also, kan u pls teech m3 how be gud knecro wun day? I buy u case of Yuengling, pack of cigs, and a subscription to blacked.com.
  19. Darwinius New Member


    1. Who's this everyone? And Gorowyn has literally the only low HP bosses in the expansion, talk about manufacturing a narrative, even then it's not like it's an event where Necros get buried

    2. 2-3 yes, and I agree the debuff limit is a joke, DoT consolidation does pretty much nothing to solve this

    3. This isn't something I've heard about being widespread, actually, just you RoTE necros reporting it unless I'm missing others

    4. Judging by how much you were doing on the parses I saw, maybe I should, if you don't delete your toon before then

  20. Sancus Augur

    It's pretty widespread. There's a long thread about raid lag in the veteran's lounge. I think the issue is much more severe for higher end guilds that have more "things" going on that tax the servers, and some of the issues may be better or worse depending on server. It's definitely not just RoTE, though.

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