Nec/Sk Dot Revamps

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Nekk, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. IblisTheMage Augur

    How about if you had 5 fast dots with short duration, but had to cast another 4-6 dot enhancers on yourself to get full raid dps values? Thinking that decreasing use of debuf slots while maintaining need to utilize many spells could maintain the apeal... maybe the dots need to have some kind of empowerment to keep them in Overdrive, and this comes through specific spells, that have a few tics in which they must be refreshed, or it is necesary to reapply dots from the beginning, wait their duration, and Overdrive them as they are about to run out. Overdrive is here thought to be even higher damage than base dots, that should be at par or better than the other classes that use dots.

    This could also support group play, without Overdrive, or Solo, with Overdrive (assuming longer kill time).

    Maybe 4 Fast Dots, and 8 Overdrive spells, 2 pr dot; maybe there is two Overdrive modes to cycle between, with one being better than the other)

    Just brainstorming here...
  2. I-WANT-IT-NOW Augur

    The something wrong is having to weave 20 dots to do what others can do with 4 spells or auto attack and a disc.

    The something wrong is having your alliances, dichotomics, twincasted doom dots all fail to land since joe ranger, beastlord, shaman or druids is casting their 15,000 to 50,000 base dots.

    The something wrong is losing to tanks, priests and secondary dps classes in just about any setting outside of raids unless your full burning or on the same mob for 2 minutes.

    Necros should maintain 13 dot lines after any revamp and then resort to mixing in their various nukes, pet swarms and buff procs to keep the class busy. With the top 2 or 4 dots all very front loaded and the rest being more of what you tack on for raid dots. This was all explained and spoon fed to the devs in beta as well as solutions to the massive power creep some others have seen.
  3. IblisTheMage Augur

    Agree on your premis, but 13 seems like too many, because debufslots. Necros should compete with other cloth casters on dps in most scenarios, while have one where they absolutely pull ahead, while being as versatile and rugged as they have always been. They should do weird esoteric complex stuff to truly shine, so that they are complex and dificult to play. And they should be the best soloing class....
  4. fransisco Augur

    If you want to maintain 13 dots, your dots won't get much more powerful.
    If necros had 13 10-20k base dots, they'd be more broken than berzerkers ever were. It
  5. I-WANT-IT-NOW Augur

    Correct, no one asked for 13 dots that were all 20,000 base. In fact the mistakes they made are that they increased base dot damage to much for many classes by like 100% or more. Which is what still needs fixing for many other dot classes who have bigger base dots then ever should have come to be.

    If the devs listened to the posts made in beta necros would go from 18 or 20 dots in raid settings to 12 or 13. That frees up quite a bit of real estate but still keeps the flavor and art that is the class. They then just need to make the big 2 or 4 dots do most of the work and the other dots being something they would only be using in raid settings or in long duration fights.

    Or to say it another way with made up numbers just to illustrate:
    If it currently takes 20 slots to do 100,000 in base dot damage.
    After revamp it should take 13 slots to do something like 90,000 in base dot damage but with 55 or 60% of that 90,000 base damage coming from the first 4 dots. And you tune from there adjusting mana and damage as needed but these would need to be much more spammable then some of the other revamped dots because its not "extra" for necromancers its their staple.

    The beta posts had actual mana and damage figures not just illustrative points, with a breakdown for each dot and consolidation.
  6. Brohg Augur

    Far fewer dots would be a more than fine situation. Not 12/13, like 6/7. o.g. necros had just one dot on each resist (not cold), plus an extra for lifesapping.

    The swarmskeles, the Demand for Blood stuff, maybe some second dot-boosting sort of nuke, swifts & group resource taps, Decay orbs all worthwhile candidates for how a necromancer could fill up full time casting with appropriately necro-ey things without running multiple spellbars worth of dots.
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  7. IblisTheMage Augur

    To develop on my brain storm above:

    Superdot 1: For first 6 tics, it is just a super-dot. From 7th tic and forth, it is a mega-super dot. If it is simply recast by same player, it drops down to superdot initial damage levels.
    Superdot 1 Rewinder: if Superdot 1 is in mega-superdot mode, its mega-superdot phase duration can be reset to 7th tic with the Superdot 1 Rewinder spell. It has a casting time, and costs mana.

    Superdot 1 Enhancer: when in Mega-mode, its corresponding enhancer spell will be a substitute for adps, that could normally be available in a groups. So dps can go up even further, but dependent on being timely refreshed, to avoid dropping to basic superdot mode.

    It means that for combats longer than the duration of the superdot, a necro can significantly increase dps, by having another spell memmed, and by expertly keeping the superdot in mega-mode with the corresponding rewind spell. This would support soloing and raiding. When raiding, the necro could have access to adps, and would therefore not need the enhancer. He will then liberate spellslots for more dots and rewinders. When soloing, he will be limited to fewer dots (superdot + Rewinder + Enhancer = 3 spell slots pr spell line), but if he is aggresive enough, he can constantly remem spells, and have all 5 (6? lines running.
  8. Venau Augur

    The idea that seems to get the most support is another Lingering Death addition. Simply decrease the duration of a dot and boost it's base dmg in accordance with the damage lost due to the decrease in duration.

    It's very simple. We'll use less buff slots. We'll scale more quickly. And we'll still have a plethora of options to create spell sets that may be customized for specific scenarios.

    This solution seems the least labor intensive for our game designers. It would be great to see it implemented. Everyone gets a lil sumthin' out of this.
  9. Juzam Djinn Elder

    Well not this patch
  10. Thoxsel Djess' Pet Warrior

    Better luck next month! :(
  11. ~Mills~ Augur


    Fixed it for you.
  12. Juzam Djinn Elder

    After seeing what Shamans / Druids are going through I am having second thoughts of wanting any changes to necro dots..
    kizant and Sindaiann like this.
  13. Ibudin Augur

    That's exactly why I posted that a few threads back - we know what we can do right now, I have little faith they would make it any better. We might get a couple weeks of dot envy from other classes, but then they would start to tweak it and completely screw it up. Leave it as is.
    Felicite and Juzam Djinn like this.
  14. Juzam Djinn Elder

    I see the light and agree.
  15. Beergoggles Lorekeeper

    This is one of the reasons I have always contended that necromancer dot update should have been done first. It only makes sense when doing dot changes that you start with the premier dot class in the game. You get them squared aa/spellwise to the appropriate damage levels then you can work on adjusting the dot damage of other classes based on where their dot damage should be in relation to necro dot damage. All of these dot damage problems via updates and subsequent nerfs have only wasted developer time and pushed updates back further and further. All of this could have been avoided with proper leadership and direction. Instead we have what we have....well over 2 years and still no dot update and previous classes having their dots updated then nerfed and renerfed.
    Tucoh and Juzam Djinn like this.
  16. Fahcx New Member

    I would also like to see the crit dot AA updated to PoP, rather than GoD. I main a necro on Agnarr and this is a huge point of discussion in regards to necromancer validity.
  17. Brohg Augur


    Envision for a moment that your class faced arbitrary 1/3 power reductions twice after the update went out. Just think about that, for a bit. Do you think you'd have been sanguine about these things? do you think you'd have gone "well, yeah, that's fair." I don't. I think you'd have flipped out and threatened to burn down New Tanaan. I think that's what any developer would think, too. Revamping the classes first that can just go "oh, well, I was really a healer all along" is just basic self-preservation on their part
    fransisco and IblisTheMage like this.
  18. Orcus New Member

    One more patch an no Necro love. At least Priest classes are not out DPS Necros.
  19. Forcallen Augur

    Basically:
    • No class should have gotten a dot over 15k in base damage unless it was a doom dot (ie not something they could spam cast at will) or a group flagged swift dot. Supplemental dot classes should never have seen anything over 8k in base damage. Going backwards, dots should always be well below the max nuke equivalent of their era with how dots function compared to nukes.
    • Dot damage should be pretty evenly spread out among the dot lines a class has. For supplemental classes this cant be avoided but this isn't an issue if they were kept at or below that 8k base cap. For those with multiple dot lines you cant have 80% of their total dot damage come from one cast and then the last 20% spread out over the other one or two or three dots. Skew it forward but within reason (for necros I suggested 40-55% of their total dot power being from their top 4 dots which equates to 4 dots of 10-14k base and the remaining 8 dot lines dropping off to where many are today as far as base damage).
    I can share what I did in beta already (and would happily work on all necro dots if it was requested by a dev) but it seems it was just ignored. There are still massive errors in the current game and I'm not just talking about current priest mana costs. You guys winged it for two years but that doesn't mean you can't get it right now.
    Spellfire and Sancus like this.
  20. Juzam Djinn Elder

    Dot revamp for necros would just = a bad roller coaster ride

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