Nec/Sk Dot Revamps

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Nekk, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. Brigog New Member

    Such a shame that devs fail to fix the class.... I love necros and sadly in the short game they are worthless.
  2. Venau Augur

    ........and here I heard u were good................you really can't hang bro?
  3. kizant Augur

    I'm not comparing 'good' wizards to 'good' necros. The comparison is between the best wizards vs the best necros where both are given ideal ADPS. In that case, necros have the lead in all but one or two events.
    Scornfire and Ibudin like this.
  4. Ibudin Augur

    Amen to that Kizant - I can confirm that.
    kizant likes this.
  5. Venau Augur

    Comparing the two classes based on parse as you are doing really doesn't say much. The two classes are played much differently. Their strategies largely differ.

    The ability to quickly erase adds cannot be adequately measured on a parse. Nor can your ability to quickly poof people to new locations. A parse is a good tool to measure performance as compared to peers. It's pretty lousy to use as a measure of value provided to a raid force as it seems you may be doing.

    Personally....if given the choice as a raid leader........if i had to pick either 3 wizards or 3 necros to be part of my force. I'd take the 3 wizards every time. I think this is pretty much unanimous. Necro sustain dominates some events. A well played wizard is vital on nearly all events.
  6. kizant Augur

    That's fine. I never suggested people should replace all their wizards with necros. The discussion started with other people comparing necro and wizard DPS in groups. Then it lead to the raid discussion since there seemed to be some confusion about how we'll they're doing in those situations as well.

    The point I was trying to make is that necros don't have anything to fear from some 'burstained' wizard winning all the events. Necros, in general, have a lead with overall DPS on raids and it'll only go up once sphere of decay is fixed. Obviously, that's discounting issues with having too many necros/dots on a mob or having to choose between only a couple wizards vs a couple necros in your raid force.
  7. Brohg Augur


    And discounting the nonsense play style it takes to achieve

    … which, according to my understanding, is what the Fabled Dot Revamp this thread is supposedly about is intended to address. Not power stuff, but how different (and in some pretty stupid ways) top level necro play is from other classes' play.
    kizant likes this.
  8. seber Augur

    I love any talk of Dot Revamp put fear in heads other class hehe ....
  9. Atvar Augur

    Had a 3rd necro on raids for the first time in a few weeks. Raid wasn't even full and dots were bouncing before I could cast my first 11 dots. It's more effective to chain cast a15k DD than it is to cast dots...
  10. Ibudin Augur

    Certain events - that does happen but I find it's usually short lived, almost like they start off the event and blast any nonesense dot they got to add alittle to their DPS and forget to cycle back and land another, or by then we've managed to weave our dots in every available slot. Its a challenge, no doubt but in the end if you can keep every dot slot packed tight with dots from chanters, druids, necros, the mob dies faster - get loot faster and events down sooner. I've never seen an instance that dot slots being taken up by other classes on raids, made the event last longer.

    Just means your personal parse might not be the best it can be - we're stronger as team than individuals.This is a tough one for many to understand. Its a ME culture.
  11. Lazipuppy Journeyman

    If dot revamp or debuff slot increasing happen, so necros, chanters, druids, can all get their dots on, wouldn't the mob die even faster - get loot even faster and events down even sooner?
  12. Samben New Member

    TIL: Wizards vs Necros in current raids is like the content on everyone's favorite website, Blacked.com. (NSFW)

    We've had the exact same experience Atvar, but with two Necros. I'd love to have another active Necro on the roster, but anything over two in raid is quite the covfefe. Cactus, EoE Warleader, ST1, and ST3-p1 are the worst offenders. We've made a bigly initiative to cut down on wasted debuff slots in an effort to make Necros , but we're still regularly bouncing dots. We may need to place tariffs on Druids and Enchanters, who have been taking advantage of our debuff slots with their superior dots, so that Necros can compete on a level playing field! Certainly, this is easier than fixing the class, right?

    Remember, as Kizant intimated upthread, Necros: 1.) Should recreate the EQ equivalent of the wonderful content on Blacked.com (NSFW) vis-a-vis Wizards, and 2.) Really love those ~550-600k+ DPS parses it requires to occasionally satisfy the conditions set forth in (1.)

    Okay, maybe 2 is doable, but so what? Necros, Druids, Wizards, Rangers, and Mages are hitting those numbers, and I certainly wouldn't be surprised if other classes are too.

    On a more serious note, as others have previously mentioned, most guilds would probably be better off by having their Necros main change to either Druids and/or Mages; thereby putting the entire debuff cap issue behind them, while simultaneously increasing overall raid DPS and versatility. I really do believe it's come to the point that the raid game is probably better off without the class in its current form. That's not a good thing.

    Also, nerf mages!

    P.S. - DONT go to that website, you sick bastards!
  13. Ibudin Augur

    Where does it end though? - then its a slippery slope of the game becoming out of balance. I suppose you could scale the HPS of the mob dynamically from the raid tool - 10 necros, 10 chanters, 10 druids join raid - Raid mob's HP's scale proportionately with the amount of dot damage each class can put out, but the debuff slot opens up to allow each class to be happy with his/her potential DPS possibilities.Think about the fun we can have then, we all get a turn at hitting the ball.

    .
  14. menown Augur

    @Ibudin - Sorry, I do not follow your logic. No class should have their "potential DPS" crippled by almost 20 year old game code, which is unrelated to both raid or class mechanics. Devs back then did not foresee the debuff cap being reached.

    DoTs have way more restrictions than other forms of damage. Even if the debuff cap was not an issue, it would be ill-advised for a raid leader to stack as many DoT classes as you have said.

    If Gamparse removed all DPS on raid targets that were HP locked, you would then begin to see how valuable burst classes are.

    Cactiki
    ST1

    If you look at events with just waves of trash or mini bosses, depending on the raids DPS, DoTs can be very ineffective.

    Skyfire
    Gorowyn
    ST2

    If you want to go back even further in expansions, if the raid target despawns and reappears, you either have to deal with initial agro or ramping up DoT damage all over again.

    To answer your question of, "Where does it end though?", it ends when A: DoT revamp is done correctly and reduces the number of debuffs needed for each class; B: Debuff cap is raised through game coding; or C: Both A and B.
  15. Atvar Augur

    Ibudin,

    The reason I bring up stacking issues, again, is to stress how freaking huge of an issue it is that it dwarfs any other issues. When you have an entire raid playing to the best of their ability, there's no point in having more than a single necro on the raid, maybe even zero necros depending on raid makeup. There is nobody to fault for this result. The revamped dots of other classes deserve to be cast over the best necro dot, let alone the 3+ expansion old weaker dots.
    Felicite likes this.
  16. Ibudin Augur

    Probably something I've neglected to think about, good point.
    menown likes this.
  17. axedat New Member

    Can we get an update on the Revamp? Any info at all?
  18. Brohg Augur

  19. axedat New Member

    This is becoming a joke. Complete silence going on years now. At this point, it feels abandoned, like they feel good about every other dot class but screw the one they wanted to do it for.
  20. Discord Ocean of Tears Conservationist

    Worry not friends. This is coming soon, you can feel it in the air.

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