More backflags needed in EOK raids

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Mezz, Dec 22, 2017.

  1. Maedhros High King

    How many apps are you guys planning to take in each week?

    Either way, your original point was that you're worried about flagging people for EOK for your progression through ROS am I right?
    There is no problem related to this what so ever assuming you beat EOK and then work through ROS.
    As the majority of your guild gets its 18 Seals of Charasis in EOK T3, the new apps and returning members will very easily be able to flag up in ROS T1 on the 9 back flags that drop from each chest.
    Its absurdly easy to get new and returning members flagged up to go through T2 and then T3 ROS with the flagging as it stands, all you need to do is put in the time.
  2. Tarvas Redwall of Coirnav, now Drinal

    I expect that there will be more than one app and two or three returning players a month that will need the back flags with a corresponding drop off of flagged folks. Attendance sort of ebbs and flows with the seasons.
  3. Thancra Loladin

    The game doesn't have to adapt to the choices you make, it should actually be the opposite.
  4. Vlerg Augur

    Yes , allowing people new to raiding / smaller raiding guild to progress and experience current , relevant content in RoS.

    This is all part of a bigger scheme build around the idea of ''if player enjoy the game, they might stick around and keep playing'' and, believe it or not, very few people enjoy repeating old, outdated content over and over for months just to get to the current expansion -> which is why we have backflags and catchup mechanics.
    Jumbur likes this.
  5. Maedhros High King

    This is based on the assumption that all players do not like to raid old content. Some hate it yes and others enjoy revisiting old content and burning through it especially after a level increase.
    You can not please everyone and any changes are going to piss off just as many people as the ones that are happy.
    I stand firmly on the side of the coin that thinks making EQ easier and more like WOW is a terrible idea.
  6. Rhodz Augur

    Heheh SNAFU
  7. segap Augur

    In this case, only if your definition of "difficult" is "annoying". Making a game less annoying is not necessarily making it easier. I'd prefer they slow down content consumption by actually making content get progressively more difficult rather than putting in artificial annoyances. Extending those annoyances to older content blocking new content is further bad design that does nothing to make it harder.

    While some might enjoy experiencing older content, that does not extend well to raids. You have 40+ people that have experienced that content over and over again that now need to keep experiencing it for the sake of arbitrary flags. For top end guilds, it's less a problem. For feeder guilds that have to constantly scrounge for recruits, this has potential to keep them stuck in flagging throughout the year. These are guilds that might require multiple nights as is to do current content raids. They're potentially losing an entire night just to keep flagging new members. That's time they're not spending getting better at new raids. That's time taking away from them grooming new raiders that us in higher end guilds depend on to back fill our attrition.
  8. Vlerg Augur

    If they were neither hard nor slow, how is this making it easier?

    if you want to redo old content (for, let's say, the aug from achievement) you can do it no matter what the backflag situation is.

    I stand firmly on the side that actually trying to get more people into raiding is a good thing as opposed to the grumpy old man approach of making everyone go through the timesink they had to
  9. Xnao Augur

    The timesink is faster because the flags also drop in RoS.

    Why not do EoK anyways, so these supposed huge amount of new apps or returning players can gear up?

    Part of raiding is doing things for the good of all

    Unless you are saying you have a bunch of already geared players without flags.
  10. Warpeace Augur

    Plan better.
  11. Warpeace Augur

    EoK flagging = Back flagging and catchup mechanics for RoS.

    Pass it along to your guildies so its not a secret
  12. Warpeace Augur

    I agree 100%, however your also wanting people to get completely free passes while looking the opposite way when considering their ability to play. You need standards for players and their classes, if they cant attain that raiding will not happen. Well it will happen just because you formed a raid and entered a raid instance, most know what the outcome will be.

    Some of those time sinks you brush aside had some very nice rewards and are even easier now.

    So, sure please dumb raids down this far so I can raid for an hour and a half a week in current content.
  13. Tarvas Redwall of Coirnav, now Drinal

  14. Vlerg Augur

    But you don't need to do it more than once, for mechanics.

    Heck, let's be honest about EQ raiding: the hardest part is finding 54 people of an appropriate class spread, no boxes ideally, awake at the keyboard and able to make gina work on their computer ( +1 for the one dude making trigger for the entire guild)

    The 10-12 second warning to move out when a viral is coming... shouldn't be an issue...
    Niskin likes this.
  15. Jhenna_BB Proudly Prestigious Pointed Purveyor of Pincusions

    It was always silly that in TBM we were able to flag 1 app per chest and with EoK it's 2 flags per chest. Come on now. It's annoying enough that we must continue to raid EoK in RoS. Moar flags plz
    Yinla likes this.
  16. Smokezz The Bane Crew

    You can raid in RoS right now. T1 has no EoK flag requirements, or did you miss that change?
  17. Vlerg Augur

    this not being an issue for CT, doesn't mean it's not an issue for B-tier guild who can't beat end of empire but don't want to go through gorenaire again.

    The point isn't to completely ignore EoK, but to not force multiple repeats simply to backflag new recruits... its already annoying enough to require Velazul's for RoS raid gear / TBM aug.
  18. Mezz Lorekeeper

    So let's look at old expansion and flagging requirements:

    Rain of Fear: Must beat every prior raid once to be flagged for next expansion. No backflags as far as I know.
    COTF: Not sure on this one
    TDS: 4 Completions required to access the upper floor, no backflags
    TBM: 16 Completions required to access next tier, but an entire backflag available for each higher tier win
    EOK: 12 to access T2, 18 to access T3/RosT2; 2 backflags in each T2/T3 chest, 9 backflags in each RoS T1 chest

    Backflagging has become a progressively harder endeavor. One presumes that it is done because devs can't produce a year's worth of new content, so they instead use backflagging to slow down progression. That really isn't sufficient justification for using such draconian measures for prior expansion raiding. Guilds raiding such expansions aren't going to exhaust all available raid content in the next year. The TBM solution seems like the easiest solution to implement, rather than to change the flag requirements (fewer flags required).
    Yinla likes this.
  19. Xnao Augur

    I can't help but think that gearing your recruits in EoK would help with beating EoK and making progress in RoS.
  20. Mezz Lorekeeper

    Yes, but it is hard to raid EOK T2 and T3 if we have to constantly run T1 raids so we can field a large enough raid force to beat T2 and T3.