I can assure you that Szilent doesn't bot 54 toons, and even if I'm wrong and he does, he certainly does NOT do it during Silent Redemption's raids. I have those same parses from those same monks that he's talking about. For the sake of ease and brevity, here are all 3 Tier 1 parses combined for our monks last Sunday. Combined (100): a netherbian warrior in 2213s, 66.86B Damage @30.21M, 12. Monk = 1.84B@833.19K in 2205s {7} | 13. Monk = 1.83B@833.48K in 2192s | 14. Monk = 1.70B@772.78K in 2198s Not included, but the max burn I'm seeing out of those 3 guys is approx 2.35mil dps, more commonly it peaks around 2mil. If you can't break 250k you're not pushing buttons or you have no gear / aa at all. It's as simple as that. Cadira nailed it on the head.
So last night my monk did a TOL mission run with SK, bard, beastlord, rogue, wizard. For the mission run I did 245k DPS, which is your experience of monk DPS in 2022. So I fit that perfectly. Therefore, if you are a 116 monk with under 28k AA wearing EOK phlogiston raid gear, 1531 heroic dex, hit points under 250k and lacking in monk disc usage and when to use, and haven't played since before December 2019... then you should expect to do 250k. However, if you exceed those parameters that are my alt monk (especially by a significant amount in gear and AA), then you should greatly exceed 250k DPS.
As usual this has degraded into you suck-get better argument. So let's get this back on track. Can monks do pretty dang good DPS is raid, sure (with massive ADPS). Our synergy is one the best in game and is FINALLY our first group adps ever... Only took 20 years to get that... But are they really where they should be IMO, no. As others have said, pulling is no longer a thing on raids at all. Not to mention bards can do it better now with their Perfect Fade that they can do with a very short cool-down compared to our ridiculous 2 min cool down. We also have multiple Devs that have 100% ignored us for like 6 years straight. Even STILL remaking 100% worthless discs over and over, year after year wasting precious development time. They won't even make super easy, small changes, that would make things way better. EVERY single year we repeat ourselves in Beta forums and other threads threw out the year with awesome changes but are ALWAYS completely ignored. Most of us are sick of it and are done with trying to help out. What's the point if they NEVER listen to damn thing. I'm not even asking for a bunch of all brand new discs that will take lot time to develop, implement, and test, just a few small timer changes, number changes, discs/ability cooldowns reduced so they line up with our discs would be amazing. They would not result in us being overpowered either as they are small changes but they would make us very happy and be slight improvement to the class. But they could care less, already proved that. Even that is to much to ask apparently. Why roll a monk when you can be SK, do the same DPS or even better DPS when fighting multiple mobs. They can tank, they can heal themselves AND DPS as well as us. They can FD, they can pull, they can do every single thing we do and better! Class balance is a joke now. Hell even Paladins can out DPS us on a small burst... it's insane. Anyway, I'll shut now but we most certainly need some help. Good luck ever getting it though
Why dont you guys who are claiming "insert dps parse amount here" post up your new hot key spam rotations and burns? Then test them out and see for yourself what works and what doesn't....but yes, you can easily parse 2mil plus dps depending on your gear / AA / pushing the "right" buttons
lots of potential to improve monks, a lots of trolling on this thread regarding accurate data. So I will contribute our last run at primal vampire this week: Necromancer1 + pets 2,425.0m@1,589.2k {X} | Necromancer2 + pets 1,988.0m@1,302.7k {X} | Necromancer3 + pets 1,588.1m@1,040.7k {X} | Magician + pets 1,223.0m@801.5k {X} | Berserker + pets 1,048.2m@686.9k {X6} | Monk1 950.2m@622.7k | ShadowKnight + pets 950.1m@622.6k {HH} | Rogue 868.4m@569.1k {X76X} | Beastlord + pets 861.3m@564.4k | Druid + pets 843.7m@552.9k {K} | Monk2 770.4m@504.8k {X} | Shaman + pets 764.1m@500.7k | Rogue + pets 762.7m@49 ... I am monk1 and I am consistently in top 10 of parses. thus i get good adps groups with full support. I am happy in general with monk power, I would love if our disciplines would get timers improved to jive with other classes i.e. 10 min burns or even better some multiple of 3 mins. hdex 3477 mostly max CoV gear with ToL weapon.
Its'a Caster (headshot/assassinate/decap) world monks just live in it =P is it possible for monks to "push top 10" yeah sure. but you need the perfect group, execution, RNG, full cool downs, even when you have those it's a struggle to keep up. like @dropfast said, every year the monk collectively provides date and improvement ideas that literally take 0 effort and it just gets brushed under the rug. here's last week's parses from Silent Redemption. enjoy (monks were consistently 700k-1mish on combined parses ranging from #10-#15, we run 4 monks. we do NOT wait for every cool down under the sun between events so typically don't have Dragon poise or rotation slightly out of sync for engages that are ready for every event in terms of monk cool downs) as you can see a monk breached on 2 events, Goranga and Shei Venitras and no its not me (i've rerolled bard) Hierarchy for ToL raids aside from Shei Venitra's where debuff limit and a single mob is a factor seems to be for DPS = 1. Necro/Mage -> 2. Druid/Wizard/Rogue/Berserker -> 3. Ranger/Beastlord -> 4. Monk/Bard -> 5. Enchanter/Shaman/Tanks Code: Combined (25): Venril Sathir in 695s, 24.83B Damage @35.73M, 1. Necro+Pets = 1.54B@2.24M in 689s | 2. Necro+Pets = 1.45B@2.11M in 688s {7} | 3. Mage+Pets = 1.15B@1.68M in 685s {G7} | 4. Necro+Pets = 1.09B@1.58M in 690s {GLX} | 5. Necro+Pets = 1.02B@1.50M in 678s | 6. Mage+Pets = 918.25M@1.35M in 682s | 7. Beastlord+Pets = 837.79M@1.21M in 691s {7} | 8. Beastlord+Pets = 760.22M@1.11M in 686s | 9. Rogue= 751.91M@1.10M in 686s | 10. Berserker= 744.03M@1.09M in 682s Combined (16): Pli Liako in 830s, 33.59B Damage @40.48M, 1. Mage +Pets = 1.67B@2.04M in 820s {G} | 2. Necro +Pets = 1.60B@1.96M in 814s | 3. Necro +Pets = 1.45B@1.78M in 816s | 4. Mage +Pets = 1.27B@1.55M in 823s {G} | 5. Rogue = 1.08B@1.31M in 824s | 6. Rogue = 1.05B@1.30M in 808s {G} | 7. Druid = 1.01B@1.28M in 790s {7} | 8. Rogue = 1.00B@1.23M in 815s | 9. Ranger = 989.55M@1.22M in 810s | 10.Wizard = 989.34M@1.21M in 815s {7G} Combined (56): Xin Tetorau Dator in 1139s, 32.38B Damage @28.43M, 1. Necro +Pets = 2.04B@2.29M in 889s {GX} | 2. Mage +Pets = 1.43B@1.49M in 959s {GXX} | 3. Rogue = 1.25B@1.40M in 899s {XX} | 4. Wizard = 1.24B@1.27M in 980s {MGX} | 5. Druid = 1.21B@1.33M in 909s {GX} | 6. Magician +Pets = 1.16B@1.26M in 925s {7GXXX} | 7. Necro +Pets = 1.10B@1.24M in 882s {X} | 8. Ranger = 1.04B@1.04M in 998s {XX} | 9. Berserker = 1.01B@901.67K in 1125s {X} | 10. Rogue = 988.79M@1.01M in 975s {G7XX} Combined (40): a netherbian warrior in 728s, 24.46B Damage @33.60M, 1. Necro +Pets = 1.50B@2.11M in 712s {G} | 2. Necro +Pets = 1.46B@2.04M in 715s | 3. Necro +Pets = 956.09M@1.32M in 722s {G} | 4. Wizard = 910.72M@1.30M in 699s {GM} | 5. Mage +Pets = 894.86M@1.24M in 723s | 6. Druid = 862.20M@1.24M in 696s | 7. Berserker = 809.84M@1.12M in 720s | 8. Necro +Pets = 791.98M@1.11M in 716s | 9. Mage +Pets = 639.52M@893.19K in 716s | 10. Rogue = 604.28M@840.44K in 719s Combined (27): Doomshade in 804s, 23.20B Damage @28.86M, 1. Necro +Pets = 1.22B@1.52M in 800s {G} | 2. Necro +Pets = 1.20B@1.50M in 797s | 3. Wizard = 970.40M@1.21M in 802s {G} | 4. Mage +Pets = 938.18M@1.18M in 797s | 5. Mage +Pets = 906.06M@1.14M in 795s | 6. Druid = 903.64M@1.14M in 794s {G} | 7. Rogue = 876.05M@1.10M in 797s | 8. Berserker = 776.43M@969.32K in 801s {G} | 9. Rogue = 749.90M@948.04K in 791s | 10. Druid = 723.78M@916.18K in 790s Combined (35): Zelnithak in 757s, 19.34B Damage @25.55M, 1. Necro +Pets = 1.16B@1.54M in 751s {7} | 2. Necro +Pets = 980.65M@1.32M in 743s | 3. Wizard = 759.47M@1.01M in 753s {G} | 4. Mage +Pets = 757.39M@1.00M in 757s | 5. Mage +Pets = 707.94M@938.92K in 754s {G} | 6. Necro +Pets = 692.58M@917.32K in 755s | 7. Druid = 626.84M@839.14K in 747s {XX} | 8. Druid = 611.60M@823.16K in 743s {D} | 9. Rogue = 583.76M@772.17K in 756s | 10. Berserker = 563.65M@747.55K in 754s Shei Vinitras in 560s, 17.87B Damage @31.91M, 1. Necro +Pets = 1.12B@2.01M in 555s {G} | 2.Mage +Pets = 936.58M@1.68M in 558s {G} | 3.Necro +Pets = 936.21M@1.69M in 554s | 4. Druid = 890.84M@1.64M in 544s {G} | 5. Wizard = 764.07M@1.37M in 556s {GM} | 6. Berserker = 681.45M@1.23M in 556s {G} | 7. Rogue = 678.83M@1.22M in 557s | 8. Ranger = 650.99M@1.16M in 559s {G} | 9. Berserker = 647.42M@1.16M in 558s {G} | 10. Monk = 636.51M@1.14M in 557s {7} Combined (38): Thall Tetoracu Liako in 1005s, 30.10B Damage @29.95M, 1. Necro +Pets = 1.69B@1.72M in 986s {G} | 2. Necro +Pets = 1.51B@1.56M in 968s | 3. Mage +Pets = 1.31B@1.33M in 981s | 4. Druid = 1.13B@1.20M in 937s | 5. Wizard = 1.05B@1.07M in 980s {G7} | 6. Mage +Pets = 1.04B@1.06M in 983s | 7. Berserker = 919.01M@937.77K in 980s | 8. Necro +Pets = 867.96M@882.07K in 984s {L} | 9. Necro +Pets = 807.89M@826.90K in 977s {L} | 10. Monk = 772.98M@789.56K in 979s Combined (52): The Primal Vampire in 1024s, 25.10B Damage @24.51M, 1. Necro +Pets = 1.68B@1.65M in 1019s {G} | 2. Necro +Pets = 1.63B@1.60M in 1017s | 3. Mage +Pets = 1.20B@1.18M in 1021s {D} | 4. Mage +Pets = 1.04B@1.02M in 1016s | 5. Druid = 1.03B@1.04M in 996s {D} | 6. Wizard = 872.89M@856.62K in 1019s {DX} | 7. Druid = 847.73M@841.84K in 1007s | 8. Wizard = 806.76M@799.56K in 1009s {D} | 9. Berserker = 724.62M@712.50K in 1017s {D} | 10. Necro +Pets = 701.27M@687.52K in 1020s {DL} Combined (53): a grinning gargoyle in 1277s, 36.05B Damage @28.23M, 1. Necro +Pets = 1.88B@1.52M in 1239s {G} | 2. Necro +Pets = 1.55B@1.26M in 1228s | 3. Druid = 1.48B@1.21M in 1225s {G76} | 4. Mage +Pets = 1.47B@1.18M in 1247s {G} | 5. Wizard = 1.34B@1.07M in 1250s {GM} | 6. Mage +Pets = 1.27B@1.04M in 1227s {7} | 7. Rogue = 1.19B@949.60K in 1249s | 8. Rogue = 1.16B@930.7K in 1246s {D} | 9. Berserker = 1.10B@879.69K in 1256s | 10. Berserker = 1.01B@808.48K in 1253s {DG7}
Bottom line is, all pure melee (Berserker, Monk, Rogue) need a serious buff to catch back up to casters/hybrids. If you're in a guild where you are beating Necros, Druids, Beastlords, SK's, Mages.. then you aren't playing with top tier players.
See folks right here 2,000,000+/DPS! And not one of you called em out. The guys including Bard ADPS in the parses as "monk" damage... I feel bad for not telling people how to parse DPS. K Raid DPS is for show. To many variables. If you want to know a classes DPS, go to that Dummy in your guild hall all by your lonesome, and hit it with your best for an hour for each class you're wanting to know the dps of.
The more you talk smack without contributing, the worse you look. Less capable, less competent, less relevant. Your collective interlocutors know that you've been playing EverQuest a long time, and so they want to treat your perspective with respect. You are not helping them out in this thread wherein you've done nothing but baselessly denigrate others with whom you've never even played. If you have any foundation at all for your apparent dissatisfaction, present that.
@Szilent THANK YOU! Agreed 100% As per this thread HeatherPurs, you guys were discussing raid relevancy of a monk. If raiding, a monks dps also includes adps. Which at the end of the day makes a monk raid relevant...Yes they depend on adps, but at the end of the day on a raid it's what makes the monks relevant with how much dps they can put out.
I mean, isn't every class raid dependent on proper ADPS? The other night, as a magician, I got a bard and a shaman for my ADPS. Finished outside of the top ten for the first time that I can remember. When I have my holy trinity of ADPS (chanter, druid, bard) I can finish right behind the two necros and 0-2 others depending on RNG and run emotes. I started the thread because outside of raids, I never see monks anywhere. My alt monk is up to 118 and I do enjoy it, but there is a significant difference between a 118 monk with EOK raid gear, 1530 hdex and less than 30k AA and my 120 half TOL/COV raid geared near max AA magician. News at 11.
@cicelee I agree and yes ADPS is critical on raids without a doubt. Last week I was #10 for the Cov Shei Vinitras raid on the dps parse as a 117 monk, CoV / ToV raid gear, 35k AA. Above me was 3 necro's, 2 magicians, 1 zerker, 2 rangers Of course the AA, gear, level and class is going to determine how the player performs. You cannot compare your mage to your monk based on the stats and gear they each have.
With a shaman, bard, rogue, berserker, beast lord, monk melee dps group, where they all have all or most of their AA and raid gear (even if it was from last expansion), a good monk should be able to clear well over 1 million dps, providing there isn't a lot of auras and other mechanics that make melee dps have to run away, or spawn lots of little targets that require frequent switching. We have five raiding monks, they can all manage it or get darn close. We raid 3 nights a week for three hours each (hey, we aren't getting any younger and Denny's opens awfully early for breakfast). We clear all 9 TOL raids plus the anniversary raid. And the top ten on the parse, so far as melee is concerned (we won't talk about necros) is the better berserkers and rogues. (Yes, a good monk can outdo a middling berserker or rogue, but that means nothing.) Given that we are good melee machines, but not the best, then we clearly need another raid role. Being needed strictly to fill out ADPS in a melee DPS group should not determine whether we get selected to raid over a rogue or berserker. The devs and designers, either on purpose or through inattention, have left us with no raid role except melee DPS, and unless your class is at the top of what can be done in that role, you need something else with which to compete.
a group with 6 berserkers is worse than a group with 5 berserkers and a shaman a group with 5 berserkers and a shaman is worse than a group with 4 berserkers and a shaman and a bard a group with 4 berserkers and a shaman and a bard is worse than a group with 3 berserkers and a shaman and a bard and a beastlord a group with 3 berserkers and a shaman and a bard and a beastlord is worse than a group with 2 berserkers and a shaman and a bard and a beastlord and a monk a group with 2 berserkers and a shaman and a bard and a beastlord and a monk is worse than a group with a berserker and a shaman and a bard and a beastlord and a monk and a ranger this same line of reasoning works for a group with 6 monks this same line of reasoning works for a group with 6 rogues this same line of reasoning works for a group with 6 rangers this same line of reasoning works for a group with 6 beastlords this same line of reasoning works for a group with 6 bards this same line of reasoning works for a group with 6 shaman innit crazy, synergy & interdependence?
You put a lot of typing into that. ADPS is what it is. A transparent mechanic created as a last ditch insurance bid by the devs to try to ensure that no class is completely unrepresented on raids. But it's just a mechanic. It's not a class-defining role.
