Monk Supremacy

Hey devs, you ever considered mildly balancing the first 15 expansions so that people who want to be DPS don't all have to play monk?

Here's a neat little reddit post outlining the less than subtle imbalance:
https://www.reddit.com/r/everquest/comments/1cguedo/tlp_dps_tier_list_by_expansion/

Sure would be cool to have more than one choice.

TLP's are so easy, it shouldn't really matter... Half the time the only reason people aren't competing better against monks is because a lot of TLP players half- the game and just kind of lazily click a button or just auto attack and watch Netflix.

Also, EverQuest isn't about parsing or DPS racing... the fights are so gd easy it's pinata central. The only time I've ever had issues with picky DPS choices is in groups, but once you're raiding it's not an issue.

I personally don't mind monks being OP, I just wish that the drops in the first couple expansions were able to match what their popularity is because I hate the drama that comes from not enough monk loot...

It's honestly comical at this point that nothing has been done about blatantly broken monk DPS. Like the entire rogue class is pointless for the most popular period of every TLP since... ever? And nobody sees any problem with this? At least other DPS classes have some kind of utility or buffs or something else they bring to the table. Monk DPS being what it is essentially makes rogue a pointless class to play and that's really a bummer lol

Yeah, rogue is my favorite class and it does kind of suck. One benefit is that you can get BiS with little competition on a rogue and once they get ramped out, they really don't do bad compared to monks. Not a great consolation prize but it's something.

This is one of the reasons I have no confidence in this company to balance a game or develop new or interesting content with the IP they have. This is such a simple fix that should have been addressed years ago, but they act like it's unreasonable and would be a massive undertaking to address.

I would go so far as to say it would actually make the Monk class more fun to play too because the game is more fun when a Monk can get excited over weapons from PoSky or Kunark. I remember not being able to sell Tranquil Staff's on Mischief because Monk fists were so much better than them.

This is not fun.

This isn't accurate, and this is coming from someone who played a lot of characters on Mischief and Oakwynd. The fights and content might not be easy, but no one is going to ever invite a Rogue to the group unless they absolutely had to. I got into a heated exchange with a guild on Mischief because they advertised that they were recruiting and I filled out an application on their website and got completely ignored, even when I messaged officers in game. This is because I was playing my Rogue at the time. And then I'm just sitting in the EC tunnel chilling when the same guild's officers start begging my Cleric to join their guild, and try to gaslight me into thinking I'm stupid or imagining things when I asked them why they never responded to my application or messages from my Rogue?

Like yeah, the content is easy, but when Monks are so over the top, there's virtually no reason to invite Rogues. It's even worse on TLP because Rogue stealth doesn't even work until they get SoS. As a Rogue I had to ask SKs and Rangers to do CRs for me because half the mobs could see invis, and at least they had feign death, could survive if they did get aggro, or could lull the see invis drolvargs and frogs in Sebilis.

This also isn't P99 so it's weird when people say that TLP isn't about DPS racing. I've had to DPS race on TLP a ton because KS'ing is allowed, I've seen this done with Gorenaire during Kunark phase multiple times, but also had to do it at actual camps, and quite frequently, where another group just decides to move into our camp and start taking our mobs. If you were talking about P99 where competition is outlawed you might have a case though.

But there's a significant amount of people, myself included, who only play TLPs, and we want to feel our nostalgia, not play this weird version of the game where our favorite classes aren't even viable until GoD comes out. That's not a "true classic" experience and it blows my mind that they are trying to provide a "true classic" experience for EQ 2, but not EQ 1. Which is what all players have been asking for for a long time. I don't even know anyone who plays EQ 2.

If you play this game long enough you come to grips with the fact the devs are married to their bad ideas.

EQ meta is choosing the OP class for a given expansion and being willing to change in the future. DPG is generally unable and unwilling to attempt careful balancing (even though it wouldn't be that hard), so that probably won't end.


Personally I think it'd be interesting to tweak balancing steadily to encourage diversity but also add dramatic class changes unique to a given TLP that would have significant balancing ramifications. As long as those changes are stated ahead of time, stuck to and no promise was given to maintain balance in a given TLP, people would only have themselves to blame for their class selection.

Rogues are my favorite class, yet I never play them. I would love to see some changes here;

The simplest balance for a rogue would be to give some sort of chaotic stab at lvl 1, so that backstabs clicks are not wasted when not behind a mob. After that, anything to increase BS accuracy or minimum damage would also help a ton. Very minor tweaks that would make a world of difference to a rogue.

Or, just go to the massive effort of nerfing every other class's dps downwards instead of pulling rogues up. I'm fine with that too.

If this were the case the entirety of live would just be SKs, necros, and maybe a couple other classes sprinkled in.

you have played live right? It is all SKs with shaman and bard bots

Why would you believe this?

The # of necros did increase when they were OP, then the mages increased when they were OP, now the # of melee is on the rise. Meanwhile SKs, shamans and bards are common in the group game because they've been extremely strong for a long time.

Regardless, EQ isn't full of meta-chasers. You'll see die hards stick with their classes indefinitely, like all the people playing monks that are rejoicing after a decade+ long drought.

Ride the wave, brother.

imagine being a penniless monk and punching dragons with your bare fists what a bunch of idiots haha

In case the devs are looking for ideas, here are a few:

1. Give casters a built-in resist modifier so their detrimental nukes can actually land. All the debuffs from a raid aren't enough. There is a period of about a year where there is literally no point in brining wizards and mages to raids.

2. Let damage focus effects work.

3. Enable the AA's that increase base damage earlier. For example, all melee have an AA that gives a flat passive percentage to melee damage. Just enable it earlier for non-monks.

4. Increase mob HP (is this possible?) to make up for the difference.

A much easier alternative, would be to lower monk damage. But I think you're not allowed to ask for decreases in power, for some reason. Even if they did that, casters really need a break on resists. Even if a wizard had unlimited mana, there are year long periods of a TLP where they would never make the parse.

I mean...I'm a war on live so it certainly isn't all SKs.

And I was mostly referring to raiding...have you raided live? It's not all Necros, SKs, and Shams.

It's not really EQ's meta if nobody is doing it...

Monks are balanced because they have to pull and I don't.

Monks, stop reading this forum and keep pulling. Your group's XP bar is counting on it.

Is there a reason why monks need to / should have higher weapon skills / double attack / dual wield etc than all of the other adps classes? I feel like normalizing those values alone would be an easy start.

This perspective on Monks is oversimplified.

While the class is undeniably formidable, it doesn't reign supreme as the original poster claims, particularly in the initial 15 expansions from Classic to Seeds of Destruction. When gear levels are comparable, it's widely acknowledged that starting from Luclin onward, Monks start to lag behind Wizards and Rangers. As expansions unfold, Necromancers and Magicians quickly as well.

Essentially, as expansions progress, damage-oriented classes tend to achieve greater balance among themselves. While certain classes may stand out more, Monks definitely don't dominate the scene after Velious.