Modern EQ

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by quakedragon, Jun 28, 2021.

  1. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    That attitude makes me wonder if internet-advertising is a bubble ready to burst...

    If someone made a widespread virus that made pc's click on random banner-ads 24/7, we would have another dot.com crash...
  2. Atomos Augur

    Kind of odd to complain about P2W while playing Everquest. You are one of the people accepting the thing you're complaining about.
  3. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    I pay the same single subscription as I did back then, nothing more. I have never accepted pay2win. Thankfully Everquest1 has not been affected much yet...Although the whole krono-concept is kinda meh...
    Elyssanda likes this.
  4. Vumad Augur


    Subscriptions and pay to win are in no way, shape or form even remotely similar.

    Games like Call of Duty have to keep releasing new versions to remain profitable, so every launch you lose your progress.

    Games like Eve are free to play, so they sell in game objects that give distinct advantages. Your prestige in the game can be directly correlated to the amount of money you have spent on the game (haven't played it, sorry if a bad example).

    EverQuest is (well, was) a subscription model. The price of entry was the same for everyone and the results to your character were a direct reflection of your in game investment. Yes 3rd party transactions could make EQ pay to win, but EQ always took a strong stance against it.

    Unfortunately, EQ is now a hybrid model. It has kept it's subscription model and added pay to win via DBC. DBC has added a lot of income but it has the cost of now nothing (vanity) means much of anything anymore. We have lost the idea that Devs need to put in quests for these items and accepted that they can just be purchased. Now we don't see something rare and think wow, you earned that mount/illusion/etc great work, now it's cool, you got a heritage crate and got lucky or sold enough out of heritage crates to buy the item you wanted.

    So to say playing EQ is to accept the P2W model is absolutely false. I hate that EQ has devalued itself and the efforts of it's players by becoming a hybrid model. EQ has been a part of many of our lives for over 2 decades. Someone buying an illusion is not a deal breaker for me.

    I do not accept it. I tolerate it.
  5. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor


    EQ1 is absolutely pay to win. Have you not looked at the cash shop? They're doing what they need to do, but it doesn't change that they're pay to win.
  6. Quik Elder

    So I will only talk about the xp pot that was listed as a possible reward.

    Xp pots are widely considered P2W so in a manner of speaking yes, you would be forced because most players would want to be in on the reward.

    Now lets take cosmetics, if it was strictly a cosmetic reward, a lot of players, including myself, could care less. honestly if it was strictly cosmetic rewards i could care less about the twitch drops.

    The MOMENT you add any form of P2W as a possible reward you are altering what the game should be about with the twitch drops, this includes anything actual game altering like useable in game items whether they are for low lvl only or not.

    You want to add twitch drops for things that have 0 impact on actual gameplay, well enjoy, I have no issues with that.

    You want to add twitch drops for ANYTHING that actually impacts the game? Yep, you can count me out. I understand I wouldn't be missed by anyone important here, but it would still be the loss of 2 subs and a lot of ingame purchases I make to help support DB games
  7. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    You can't buy player-power(except for bags) in the marketplace(afaik).

    You are right that it is pay2win, but you don't need cash to buy from the marketplace. Treating it like the loyalty vendor, is my way of boycotting pay2win.
    I think the krono-concept is much more pay2win than the marketplace tbh.

    You could even argue that boxing is pay2win, more subscriptions = more player-power, but thats probably an unpopular opinion....
  8. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    While I definitely think EQ does "whale hunt" in a similar way to many Pay to Win games (typically those are F2P titles), the kind of whales it goes after are the EQ fashion-victims.
    Subtle difference maybe but I think it is important to distinguish between what EQ does and what a lot of other games do out there.
    I'm definitley a critic of some of the stuff EQ does commercially, like lootboxes & the recent collectors pack, but it could be a whole order of magnitude worse if was anything like the Pay to Win that exists elsewhere where players buy actual power.
    XP potions are probably the only real P2W item, and those are very minor since they don't actually give you anything, you still have to go out and actually play the game to make use of them, so a short cut in time required to advance maybe, much like a Heroic 85 is, and with the way the XP "model" changed in ToV and probably onwards, even those XP potions are devalued from ToV onwards.
  9. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor


    Bags are player power.
    Mount buffs
    LoN has/had items that are P2W.
    Kronos.
    Experience potions
    SoW potions
    Levitation potions/items
    Rez tokens from bag sales

    The list goes on and on. EQ is P2W, and these are things that give players an advantage through the cash shop.
  10. quakedragon Augur

    Twitch drops does nothing but gives game free advertising and players have a way to help promote game by being a number in someone's stream. It can be another general chat, people sometimes just go on a stream to chat with others.P2W? Um twitch accounts are free. You don't click on any website, you get a twitch drop for just sticking around in someone's stream.

    Twitch is like the popular thing now days, so just saying if you not in the loop, yeah.
    Its more than games too, you can learn to code watching developer twitch streams.

    EQ is a boxing heavy game, I'm not sure how alt tabbing around works in twitch stream, but it sure would be interesting watching someone box too. IMO EQ should embrace boxing and just make it part of the game. I prefer groups, but 1-100 is barren wasteland.
  11. CatsPaws Devil's Advocate

    Something to consider............(Deep Thoughts by Catspaws Handey) look up the last name if you don't know already

    If EQ is P2W then surely someone has bought enough to "win" EQ and yet there is no end to the game and no one really "wins" this game.

    Since you cannot "win" EQ then how is there P2W?

    If you play straight F2P and defeat an entire zone of ach, quests etc then don't they "win" also.

    Food for thought.
  12. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor


    I gave myself a bloody nose from the facepalm that I just did.
    CatsPaws likes this.
  13. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    This reminds me of

    [IMG]
    CatsPaws likes this.
  14. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    Except for kronos and xp-potions most of those items are attainable in-game through normal gameplay.
    But I agree with you, that is pay2win...

    You can buy enough kronos to afford a full set of rare items, being fully decked out in current raidgear(or equivalent) is a "winning condition" for some.
    Thankfully it looks like they are phasing out rare loot. :)
  15. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    Can you elaborate?
  16. Tatanka Augur

    There are still people who don't run ad blockers to remove banner ads?
    Elyssanda likes this.
  17. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Yes.
    Tatanka likes this.
  18. Atomos Augur

    rofl, EQ1 is 100% a P2W game. That's not up for debate.

    It doesn't matter if you participate in it or not, if you play Everquest, you are supporting a P2W game, whether you want to admit that or not.

    P2W isn't new, it's been going on for a long time, and it's not going anywhere. A lot of games today would no longer be operating if not for whales and P2W. I have friends who have ran games with cash shops, the amount of money people are willing to spend on stuff would blow people's minds and frankly it would be foolish to ignore that money.

    People used to buy and sell accounts and equipment for real money for Everquest and Ultima Online in the 1990s. People were P2Wing over 20 years ago.

    Even WoW, the top MMO for 17 years, has been P2W for quite a while.

    And before anyone tries to claim otherwise, cosmetics are still P2W, even more so if real money is the only way to obtain the item. You may not care what your character looks like, but a lot of people do. Being able to change that without any gameplay effort and only real money is P2W.

    P2W has a very wide and diverse range. Some games have more, some games less. Some games try to only do cosmetics because it is the "least offensive" or "most acceptable" version of P2W.

    There is a reason that you can no longer name an MMO that doesn't have P2W. It's because that can no longer exist. Frankly when we were paying $10 a month and $15 a month for what we were getting back in the day, we were underpaying.

    I do wish that someone would come up with a better term, though, because calling it P2W makes people go "HURR DURR, WHAT ARE YOU EVEN WINNING?"
  19. Accipiter Old Timer


    It's no different than Web clicks, IMO. It might take 100,000 to land a customer but apparently it's worth it.
  20. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.


    You are conflating RMT with Pay to Win here, they are not the same thing.

    RMT is the players spending money outside of the game for things in the game.
    P2W is the game company selling items that directly give one player with money a statistical advantage over another player.
    EQ has whales yes, but the P2W is minimal, the RMT however is rampant and Krono allows DayBreak to get a slice of the RMT market & offer a more secure way to carry out those transanctions to players in the process in a "if you can't beat them join them, and then do it better than they do" way.
    Vumad likes this.