MMO History Lesson

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Aenoan, Jun 19, 2016.

  1. Aenoan Augur

    This was a fun watch, its old video but when I read some of the stuff and the "I wants" I think people forget how good we got it as a mmo players. But mostly I found it a great watch, when I was trying to understand why UO after 18years seems to have a stronger player base than EQ and there was a couple of interesting things that seemed pretty obvious,for starters they cancelled UO2 *cough* and focused on the original. Well thats how I see it anyway. Enjoy!

  2. Thraine Augur

    F2P?!? ... ewwww :p
  3. Aenoan Augur

    Haha, I am not as entirely opposed to Free-to-Play as I used to be, when it's done right.
    sadly I don't know why they moved this post, almost none of it applied to the general population, just all the salt over the TLPs and felt like they needed a bit of friendly reminder. 5 am though so exceptionally cranky until coffee is done!
  4. Rhodz Augur

    I cannot with any credibility say I have ever seen a game fail because it gave people what they wanted...

    Seen games make the claim but we all know about those claims dont we.
    Faerie likes this.
  5. Aenoan Augur

    Of course its about graphics and game play it always has been about the two, why do you think WoW is so successful? It's their fundamental game play that drew in the crowds, but you'd be naive to think it's never about graphics, graphics are the biggest draw. Just look at systems now, if it wasn't about graphics and if graphics didn't matter most of these newer games would not have solid, like... any of the Crisis Core games, Witcher, Bloodborne, Witcher or Fallout, and my personal favorite Ori and Blind Forest.
    You could probably include a few other games like God of War and Last of Us.
    I am almost positive none of those games would have succeeded with sub par graphics with the exception of a couple of those I listed (I just listed my personal favorite games) the stories and game play is really weak. I think a game like Last of Us would do ok if it didn't look the way it did, it's story line was spectacular but let's face Giraffe scene looked like something outta EQ1, not a chance.

    If graphics meant nothing at all, it would be the main driving force behind the fact, we jumped from 8-bit systems to PS4's and Xbox Ones. Or the fact PC systems are the way they are not. We don't play those older games on emulators because they were beautiful, I might add, we play them because nostalgia, our favorite nes, snes, or sega games updated, we'd eat that up. Where are you Dragon Warrior reboots.

    I don't know if I agree that MMO's are dying though that title was a tad misleading but I guess when you look at how many games get canceled or suddenly just go offline, it seems kinda scary to the MMO genre fan.

    RIP - Vanguard, Darkfall, Wildstar (lets face it though NCsoft never executes), Dragon Prophet.

    As far as Free to Play. It's an amazing tool if it's used right, the games below have blown up because "F2P":

    League of Legends
    Path of Exile
    Any Mobile Game

    Mobile genre like he said is getting bigger if you pay attention. The fact some Mobile games are showing in ESL / MLG Tournaments with a decent prize pool, shows it's strength. Clash of Clans 2015 I believe had over a 2million dollar prize pool.

    The only comfortable exception to these rules to me is probably Ultima Online, it really hasn't changed much, visually its starting to look more like PoExile. But they have been around a bit longer
    then EQ (by about a year). But they don't use a F2P and probably never will. To me it's the last "true" RPG or what modern gamer calls a sandbox mmo. Still got my map maker / treasure hunter!
    WoW has seen greater success with the use of their version of a Krono and a Free-To-Play up to level 20 system-thing.
    Free to play can be detrimental to a game too if not done well, because it's used as a crutch to try and save a game without putting much thought into it. Look at EverQuest, the Free-to-play does nothing to help returning players, "Oh hey, coming back to your beloved character after 10 years? Enjoy all the prestige items so all you can do is run laps around the nexus." I stuck around to play TLPs but the rest of my friends / family that wanted to come back just stuck with Warcraft.

    EQ's downfall was definitely poor business choices, all gaming companies are doing what they love nad want to make money off it, that's fair, I don't mind P2P if I am getting value out of that dollar, I stopped playing WoW because my 50 bucks and the 15 on top that for each month, I was getting next to no content, if you do a bit of googling, there was a lot of angry birds like rage over the fact their last expansion WoD gave us next to no content and it was one of the more expensive expansions that expansion really hurt the game. EQ spread itself to thin, UO success i think has everything to do with the fact that cancelled Uo2 and just focused on their main game. It won't see big player base numbers like WoW or Eve Online, by design the servers couldn't handle that, its also a niche game. But they've never had to merge servers or shut down silly card games.
  6. Jezzie Augur

    I'm a big fan of Morrowind but didn't even try the mmo version. Not because of a subscription but because all the exploits being reported on launch. For me, hacks and exploits just destroy a game so it wasn't worth the effort of trying, same with SWTOR.
    I think the biggest complaint with H1Z1 is hacks, don't see anybody screaming about subscription fees!
  7. Aenoan Augur

    Sadly that's just something you can't get away from, paid or free. I've never tried H1Z1, I probably never will. H1Z1 looks fun from what I've seen on
  8. Rhodz Augur

    Well there was a heck of a MMO bubble for a few years after the success of EQ and another after WoW launched. The genre tends to put company failings up front and center just due to persistence.

    AO was a great concept but FunCon never executes well and Conan proved it (how do you blow that chance err?) SWG was fantastic until it became obvious there was no content, none. Darkfall... less said the better about that bunch.
    etc etc etc etc
    It is not now nor ever was a problem with the game concept but it has to be done right or turn into a money pit, just like everything else. People like F2P just due to having been burned so many times and that is fault of those running it.
    Im ok with either plan just run the game right and know when to listen to the players, at least the play testers for crying out loud.
  9. Jaerlyn Augur

    ESO is actually a good game that (in my opinion) fails at being an MMO. It's actually quite fun playing through the storyline, treating it mostly as a single player game, and then just put it aside once you've reached the end of the main quest.
  10. Jaerlyn Augur

    Huh? SWG had more content than most games out today. It may not have been the content YOU wanted, but it had content.
  11. Rhodz Augur

    We are talking about the same game right... the original because I would like to hear what content existed outside of Jaba's and it was fairly limited and was the major complaint among players nerfing of combat medics withstanding.
  12. Rhodz Augur

    The revamp was crap how it went live is a wonder.
    Otherwise the game was fine in particular tradeskills which were indispensable. SWG found a way to make players depend on each other without contrivance as there was little gear to be had from mobs. All it lacked was content.
  13. Aenoan Augur

    I was greatful I never touched ESO, even The Angry Joe Show ripped that one a new one. Never tried any of the Star Wars games, just wasn't a fan enough. Lord of the Rings wasn't to bad for a MMO.

    There was certainly a lot of hits or misses. After WoW there was a boom in the genre because the style of mmo had changed from what it was. A lot of developement teams jumped on the bandwagon to try and mimic what Warcraft laid down.
    I think sadly this affected existing MMO's like EQ they tried to apply many concepts that just don't work in this particular style of MMO.

    I think we'll start seeing better quality MMO's or I hope, im noticing rather than copying what works companies are just doing their own thing. Eventually people get tired of that type or style of game and they leave. But they aren't gonna make the "next" wow killer. Destiny had it's issues at the start but it looks like a fantastic game. I just don't like consoles enough anymore to try it. :/

    I am hoping Pantheon doesn't turn out to be another turn and burn and sell off like Vanguards.
    It's finally taking shape.
  14. CrazyLarth Augur

    my one MMO regret will probably be not taking up the offer for $500 for life time game play some new Star Trek MMO but it was not EQ1 so I said no even if I am a life long Trekkie I could not due it. And I spend more then $500 a year in EQ1.
  15. Jaerlyn Augur

    The fact you mentioned tradeskills being fine and indispensable is an example of content right there.

    Maybe -you- don't consider tradeskills content, but many do. (It's all relative. I don't care about tradeskills in EQ, but I'm sure some do, and want more tradeskill content in EQ.)

    Heck, I play FFXIV a lot, and many of the people I know there were eagerly awaiting this recent update for the crafting content. Not the story line quests, or anything else. The tradeskills content.

    If you want specific content, that's perfectly fine. We all have different tastes.
  16. Rhodz Augur

    Yes I do not consider that game play content though I can see your point, traditionally TS is considered separate from play content. Imagine EQ without raids, HAs, progression, quests, etc but with an outstanding TS system.
    It would not be here now and neither is SWG.

    TS may be the icing but there must be a content "cake" under it to support the reason for having them.
  17. Rhodz Augur

    Never ever never buy a bunch of time in advance on an MMO one is not 100% sure is already running well. Even then think twice ...

    Want to guess how I came to that conclusion?
    Yep burned

    I have yet to play a franchised sci-fi based MMO that lived up even close to potential and many times just failed outright. If Star Wars can't make it none of them may, of course one can not spend $200 Million on development and have any kind of profit. Even Bliz could not pull that one off.

    How on earth could one spend that much money on a MMO and not be hauled in for a 72 hour psych eval I can not answer with a straight face.
  18. Aenoan Augur

    Agreed, I kept throwing money at NCsoft and thankfully I got refunds, I was very excited for Aion, but they keep using the same garbage protection software called game guard and every time they import a damn game it breaks - not to mention they are usually a year behind or more on content compared to asian servers.
  19. Rhodz Augur

    I dont think any production company that spends massive amounts on just licensing alone has a chance. It is like starting out in a deep hole and glorifying the step stool you get to stand on down there.
    My guess is somehow equating the amount money spent on a game with quality of the end product.

    Anyone ever seen a very expensive rocket blow up on the pad because it had a fatal design flaw? Same thing, so much is spent on one part of the game someone cuts the wrong corner to save money. Just an observation