Methods of Sarnak Destruction ninja-nerf?

Much appreciated clarification. Your previous comment made me feel like you were telling me (and the rest of us) that we were not actually being affected by a ninja-nerf/stealth change. Stuff happens and the players usually shoulder the brunt - that's normal. But being told there are 5 lights felt infuriating

Hmm...
So the backend either did NOT check for the zone before this change, or it did and discarded the result (made a needless call).
Either way, now it does check for the zone.
If this was about performance... why not just eliminate the check/call-out and be done with it?
CPU-time not spend = raw performance gain i'd reckon.

Yeah, ok.
The title of this thread is about a certain task, and just from taking a step back and look at similar task steps, we could tell that this wasn't about "a particular task". Thanks for officially confirming that obvious part though.


The question i have in this context is:
Will it remain the way it is NOW, or will it be reverted to how it used to be?

Obviously, i'd want to have it reverted to the way it was - after all i already gathered the items from the zone they dropped in (one could check explorer achievements lol)- for other tasks (e.g. Droga mercenary) the items are even NO DROP.
On this task:
We have these things in the guild bank, so we can go to the TS room and just make the combines.
NOW we have to load a box with the items from the guild bank, take both through EoK zones and give the zone's item to the char with the task so it updates.
I honestly don't see the underlying reason for that - except if you really were to insist on making us run needlessly around even more than you already do.
(in the case of the Droga task this means: Taking the statue to FM north, run all the way south to NPC, then run basically all the way back up, zone into droga, trade and zone back out, run all the way down south again...)
"down south" - that is where i want to see this "change" taken to!

Part of the change was also consolidation. All of the elements that deal with inventory use a similar inventory check, not only the collect elements, so it's not as simple as removing that check. And especially for loot, zone is important. Plus, keeping the ability to zone restrict actually gives us options. We still have that ability to say "any zone" on the design side without making it so code always ignores the zone restriction.

That's still up in the air. We have a weekly design meeting on Thursday, and I'll bring it up there.

I sure hope it is presented as, "While addressing an unrelated issue, we accidentally affected many quests in multiple expansions, making the quests significantly more burdensome than they were originally intended to be. The full extent is probably not known yet. Should we change it back, as all the player feedback has asked?"

I think *all* is a bit extreme unless you are the only one that gives feedback, then sure... But, yes. I do understand that it makes the tasks more "Burdensome."

I don't think it would be extreme, unless you have feedback from players that like the change. In that case, "all" would just plain be wrong. And so would I. Again.

Thanks for looking at this!

"all" is always wrong!
(and that statement there is, strictly spoken, wrong too, lol)

If this change gives designers more/better possibilities for the future, I am fine with some additional footwork. It's not like we are doing tasks all day long.

Only speak for yourself

Ngreth if I could make a suggestion:

Option 1:

If the quest goes collect something > turn something in

Make the NPC return the item (even if they want it) if the collect step isn't done? That way people have the opportunity to turn the item into an NPC in the correct zone for "collect" credit.


Option 2:

If the quest goes collect something > turn something in

If the collect step isn't done, the collect task should auto update on the turn in if the collect was done in an improper zone.

I don't know why the zone is relevant in a "Collect..." step. That's what "Loot..." steps are for, and we already have those.

I think some collect items could be found on older zones with lower level mobs.

Hmm, older zones... I suspect main reason is to make sure that Conflagrant Diamond for Crestra earring is obtained in Overthere, not in the Lab...

Oh NO!
I got my diamond in the Lab!
They are gonna take my earring away!
They will probably take the ear as well!
They will suspend me for exploiting!
I am ruined!

If the goal was to ensure that players loot the items themselves or travel to a specific zone, that behavior already exists in the game without changing anything except the specific quest that the devs want to change. I believe these are two options that already existed for devs:

• A "Loot..." step already requires the player to loot a corpse, which ensures that the player is in the appropriate zone. So, for a specific quest, simply change the steps from "Collect..." steps to "Loot..." steps.
• Making the items No Trade also accomplishes the same thing WITHOUT affecting other existing quests.

Why would a modification of "Collect..." steps, on a global level, be necessary at all? And if the decision to make this change was based on other factors, the potential future benefits of the "other factors" should be weighed against the immediate effects of the change.

In general, I think the biggest issue was the lack of prior communication about the change.

Seems to me lots are forgetting the role playing aspect of the entire game, as in mmorpg. If the quest tells you to collect some roots from zone A, then you're required to collect the roots while in zone A. Asking to do less is just trying to scam the NPC into believing you when you swear that you actually got the roots in zone A, when as far as he can tell, you never went to zone A. So you haven't done what he's asked.

Asking for item A from location B does not mean you personally need to do so. It just means he wants you to acquire something that can only be found someplace. Part of a multi-player game is trading with other adventurers that may have acquired A while in far away location B.

Now, asking you to go and kill big, bad meanie and bring back his head would be a little different. Although I'd argue there's nothing wrong with contracting the deed and receiving the head. When you're role playing, you can decide your role and accomplish things in the game world through various methods so long as the request is fulfilled one way or the other. They have the option of no drop, location/kill updates, etc to restrict how players accomplish tasks.

And to the "scam" comment, being a sneaky, scroungy scammer is a perfectly legitimate way to role play your character within a game. What I think is that many people, including the designers, forget at times that this game was originally designed around role playing and the quest arcs, progression and even the use of things like tradeskills have become way too strict and linear, deviating from the freedom and creativity of an actual role play environment.

Why not do an inventory check on getting the task ? Any collect part that uses a tradeable item should be ALL so it can be collected in any zone.

Meh...
"Drogan Toes" for an example:
I was at the NPC for the first time, got the task and went to Droga, killed goblins and returned with their toes. Then i was in Droga again - without seeing the NPC prior to this, stumble over some more toes and remember "oh, there is that guy that needed them, so i'll keep them to give them to him when i see him next time".
I see him next time and no, now he doesn't take them - he asks me to take them back to Droga first...
He doesn't let me explain that they came from Droga and are as good as the other ones i gave him, no - he now wants me to return, charm some poor Goblin and give him his brother's toes only so i can take them back again.

How does that make sense, even in a role-playing setting?

At least you are not (yet) required to seek out toe-less goblins and collect recepts from them.
"To whom it may concern:
This is to certify that the toes presented along with this document are, to the best of my knowledge, mine.

Sincerely,
a dust sneak."

We did come to a decision yesterday to change the CODE to make collect elements (NOT loot or other elements that deal with inventory) ignore the zone restriction.
I do NOT have an ETA on this.
I also plan to make a code request to make the collect element more responsive to both zoning and when an element unlocks. But that is a separate task and a separate request.