Discussion in 'Melee' started by Bobokin, Sep 19, 2019.
These are not equivalent abilities
Not even in the same stratosphere. I guess the argument could be made that decap is useful against more mobs but that's implying it's useful at all
Please explain how they are not similar. They are both low percentage chances to perform higher extra dmg attacks.
An arguement can easily be made that because a paladin will now riposte less frequently that we're getting fewer slay undead swing chances as well. My point is valid regardless of how similar or dissimilar assassinate is from decapitation or slay undead. All melee classes are getting fewer chances to proc those special attacks.
Rogues have no more of a complaint than anyone else.
Proc frequency and the type of damage that they do. Decap's proc rate is unaffected by dex so its proc rate is much lower than assassinate and it does direct damage so it's not effected by nearly as many discs as assassinate is. Decap accounts for very little damage while assassinate adds a ton of damage.
I was in Neriak Fourth Gate this morning, seemed to be killing mobs about as fast post patch as pre-patch.
I've spent some time in TBM, and I, too, am noticing not much change between the two. Yeah, the mobs I'm not focused on die a *little* slower, but not much. All in all, I think we got by rather unscathed.
My main beef with what your saying is you seem to be under the impression that riposte is a damage ability when it isn’t, it is a tank skill that all melee have. That being said they did not remove ripostes. On anything from at least COTF and up i haven’t noticed a difference on, can’t say about anything lower as i have not gone back any further. Although I’m sure if you go back to ancient content yes you will notice just because the mobs will miss you more than they can hit you. I didn’t really chime in to say that the change was good, i chimed in because once again any little change gets turned into some big deal for no reason at all.
And lastly i promise any riposte change is gonna affect a zerker more than a rogue and i didn’t mean that in terms of decap/assassination. I’m 99% positive a zerker is cranking out more riposte dmg than a rogue would even with assassinations in the mix.
Ripostes can generate a backstab, which can also assassinate. Assassinate can be as high as 6 million damage. Tell me how a rogue will be less affected than a Zerker?
If a rogue is just doing DPS for a raid, it isn't much difference, and that is all the devs care about. They don't care about rogues helping their group against lower level mobs like other classes do. Yeah, we know this was designed to lessen swarming - just as castrating Vainglorious Shout is. They don't get that it takes casual players years extra to get to the point of using these skills, and then they nerf them.
My whole guild is casual players, and most of the guild is considering leaving or have already left the game. This patch, with the riposte nerf, VS nerf, and GMM changes has made a huge negative impact on casual players.
Seriously, are you XP'n in Underfoot on greens or something?
Based on your signature I'll assume you're a live player and I understand your animosity towards the TLP populace. However, any reduction in overall player population is a hindrance to EQ and I too have noticed a slight drop in players on Phinigel after that nerf patch was implemented. In order to target a small percent of people they seem to modify abilities and mechanics which often makes a larger percent feel ostracized. Regardless of his methods of leveling and how much you may disapprove of them, Bobokin isn't incorrect in his observations and statement.
I'm talking about how the riposte nerf actually works. Yeah, it does suck when pulling a lot of very low level mobs. But if you're attacking even remotely current content? It really doesn't slow you down at all. And "current" being anything from CoTF and beyond on the live servers. The mobs still fall down.
TLP, live... they work the same when it comes to mobs of near your level vs. ancient content.
I have no experience with live content to compare to but if it performs the same both pre-nerf/post-nerf in that current content, what was the main intent in nerfing it? I'm interested to see data on how much the changes have positively improved server performance, since that's what they claim it was for. Riposte was extremely useful for farming tradeskill materials from lower zones when either skilling or farming the rare items for Artisan's. It was also beneficial when killing more trivial low level mobs, specifically for non-tank melee, which are often the target of group geared "casual" players. I see many live raiders mention how they don't see much difference but then countless more TLP "casual" players mention how they aren't killing as effectively anymore. A game trying to retain players should be focusing on the greater good but nerfs like these only serve to dissuade continued subscriptions.
Rogues can't stand toe to toe with same level mobs. They get killed before the healer can heal.
Otherwise, the rogue will backstab and not worry about riposte. We are not talking TBL groups or raids here, but just regular groups in FM or other places are affected. Rogues CAN'T use assassinate against same level and above mobs, so that damage is out the window. Now, the devs have nerfed it against lower level mobs. Headshot still works; spells still work, uber armor on tanks still work, but riposte and assassinate get nerfed. For what?
Casual players take much longer to even use these skills, and after the raiders get years with them, the devs decide to nerf them just as the fun begins. Why?
The devs talk about how little time and manpower they have, but they always have time for a good nerf and then make cookie cutter items off old templates. Most of the charm of Everquest was lost long ago; only friends and family remain.
And FM mobs still fall over. Did you even read what I said?
Oh and you know assassinate has been around since Kunark right? So saying "Casual players take much longer to even use these skills, and after the raiders get years with them, the devs decide to nerf them just as the fun begins. Why?" is pretty ridiculous.
If I was a rogue I was go to rentatank.com and get meatshield to box with so that I could be the proper arsepoker I was brought up to be
I was unaware the revamped FM zone was in the Kunark expansion. Good to know.
After spending year always having to be helped by someone else in zones a bit high because I was playing catch-up, it was nice to be able to return the favor. That is the story for many casual players.
Again, perhaps the devs should make spells not work against gray mobs that fail a resist and armor not work against mobs that are gray. Let's see how well that works for everyone.
/boggle. You really just argue to argue. But just to explain it to you... assassinate has been around for a very long time. It wasn't "just added to the game" recently and only raiders got to use it. Only to get yanked away from poor you. It's been around for 20 years.
Well the revamped FM does not have grey con mobs. And I’m 100% positive assassinate works the exact way it did prior to last months patch and you probably riposte at a minimum 95% of what you used to be able to riposte while in FM prior to the patch. Do you parse by chance? I’d love to see the data from before and after the patch in which you are coming up with your conclusion that they gutted assassinations so badly.
It’s crazy how all mele are not up in arms about any loss in DPS. When you are trying to squeeze every bit out, this mele nerf sucks. Riposte is not the only loss here. We do Proc DPS from successful skill usage that is also gone now.
DBG screwed up 2H weapon DPS as evidence by TANKS doing more DPS than mele. Nerfing our ability to efficiently farm rare trade skill items was just a side effect of trying to fix that.
Are we just assuming they were lying when they said the change was for computation time? Seems to me cutting out the calculation if the mob misses is a benefit to the game via increased performance.
I can attest that I have seen 0 change in FM killing speed. I still run out of mobs in the NW fort before repops. Mobs don't straight miss very often at the higher levels. This does not affect current content (live or tlp!) dps in any measurable way.
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