Massive Nerfs Inc - Melee, Tanks, Berserkers

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Rorce, May 9, 2014.

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  1. Winnowyl Suffering is optional.

    Not gonna lie, while I certainly don't like how the changes are going to impact me after I die on raids, I'm way more concerned about how it's going to impact my TANKS after THEY die on raids. I mean, ok, I can't burn after I die; I can choose to sit out/back and get some endurance back before I go back in, and miss a couple of minutes of super slowed, weakened rez effects laden dps. But what about my tanks?
    Gyurika Godofwar and Fenudir like this.
  2. boukk_sebilis Augur

    The rest nerf is just stupid and need to be canceled.
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  3. Vlerg Augur

    So... as a wizard, I should be happy that my class only got a 20% nerf to burst along with a severe nerf of mana regen ( claw) in CoTF? when compared to melee... the lesser of 2 evil.

    But hey, Hastened nexus gate and extended swarm pet!
    alidan and Leerah like this.
  4. Tanecho Augur

    If this is to force melees to suffer from resource requirements, here's what also needs to happen.

    1. Give shamans a spell that they can just hit a person with a massive infusion of endurance (aka quiet miracle for endurance) so that they can help someone just rezzed like a caster can get an infusion of mana to almost immediately re-enter the fight.
    2. Remove slow from rez effects, so that our problem is that we are out of resources instead of out of resources AND arbitrarily slowed for 4 minutes. Going from 216-225% attack speed to 95% is ridiculous when others suffer no penalty other than being out of the blue stuff that rains from the sky.
    3. Any spell that currently gives any form of endurance regen, double it.
    4. Endurance regen needs to become a more common part of gear. It is barely ever used (a few augs and cultural weapons is all that comes to mind). Heroic stats should contribute more to endurance regeneration.
    5. Cut all disc timers in half or more. We're not managing timers anymore, we're managing resources. We should have the option to burn harder but risk running out of resources.
    6. Hell, stop calling them discs and let us hit them all at the same time if we want. I'd love to hit Heel of Kanji / Stonefoot / Speed Focus / Terrorpalm. Hitting them all at once is probably going to drain 75% of my endurance over 45 seconds, but hey, it's my choice to burn my resources right?
    Brogett, beryon, alidan and 6 others like this.
  5. Syrup Augur

    These changes reflect a concerning lack of both, class and resource understanding by the dev team.
  6. RS78 Lorekeeper

    I'm not going to pretend to know what the logic behind some of these changes are, but i hope it's in connection to something that maybe going live at a later date. If that is the case why go live with nerfs before the 2nd half is ready. Melee in general don't seem to need "toning down " that i know of at least. And not real sure what the reasoning behind the change to syllable of refreshment is either. If you take away the twincast/mana regen spells from the list, whats the purpose of even having the effect. It kind of reminds me of the Death bloom nerf that was supposed to bring necro's in line with mana regen during raid situations, but there is so much mana regen going around on them its was pointless and only hurt the grouping Necro's. Like i said i wont pretend to know what the reasoning behind all the changes are, but to send these live with the release of T2 CoTF ( 1 zone 6quests 2HA's? ) seems like more time was spent making players weaker for lack of being able to come up with competitive content? Just a little speculation... Figured I'd ask before the lock.
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  7. Brosa Augur

    Considering that we have reached a staggering amount of nerfs in this lack luster CotF expansion I am going to optimistically side with those who think this a precursor to new upgraded abilities that the "old nerfed" abilities will be able to stack with. I don't believe we have seen nerfing across the board as we have now.

    After reviewing this I retract my position on being optimistic. My stance now is hopeful. /cross fingers that soe isn't making a massive mistake
  8. Ratbo Peep Augur

    We don't see any "logic" at this point either.:(
    It goes right back to - all people are really asking for is some:
    Transparency and Honesty
    Szan, Gyurika Godofwar and Leerah like this.
  9. Leerah Augur

    How's this for honesty? Suppose they came right out and said, "We need to make Everquest harder for everyone?"

    Isn't that what people were asking for?
  10. Langya Augur

    They could have done that with content, not nerfs. Nerfs just piss people off.
  11. Leerah Augur

    That would only affect content going foward, not backward. Considering there's one zone going foward, it's not hard to understand.
  12. Hayzeus Augur

    This. Exactly this. The real tank vs pet tank is only the latest example in a VERY LONG list of similar topics.

    I want to care about the Endurance nerf. I can feel inside that I think it's wrong. But I'm so bloody jaded and bitter that the majority of them were calling out in support of the nerfs we were handed... it's just hard for me to come here and defend the Endurance crowd now. They slapped me fairly hard when I was pushed down by the devs... Why would I ever come to their defense now?

    I am very good friends with some incredibly capable tanks. I feel bad for them. I went through this with my own class a short while ago. I know they're good enough that they will find ways to overcome the changes, but still I think these changes are unwarranted. As I felt with the changes to my own class.

    Each class cares about their own class. The vocal are quick to defend nerfs to other classes, and they're quick to cry foul when it's their own class. The silent majority may or may not agree, but they're silent... how much help is that? OMG we even pointed out during the deathbloom fiasco that melee classes were next, but still the vocal amongst the melee classes (and other caster classes) just kept pointing out that we needed a nerf. They pointed out that the devs wanted to make "Mana a resource again." They pointed out that it should be a resource. How's that concept working out for you now?

    Necromancers had the Deathbloom cast time more than tripled. TRIPLED!! Where were the other classes when we needed to be defended? The only thing I remember is a bunch of other classes piping up trying to show that we did need the nerf. Thanks for that! I recall a few wizards in particular blabbing on about how we have unlimited mana. How's that concept working out for you now?

    Don't even get me started on our slowing capabilities. We had our slow chopped down from 75% to 40%. Where were the other slowing classes when we needed defending? Nowhere in sight, if I recall. Thanks for that!

    We did, but they didn't care. The majority of posters were in support of the nerfs because they believed the hype that "necromancers never run out of mana." Yet, now we're one of the first classes oom, and it's okay because now "mana is a resource again."

    The absolute most disgusting part of all this is... I know that the true majority of players didn't post at all. Nothing in either support of or in defense of the changes being made. They'll come online now that it's there class and say things like "I never posted that you should be nerfed!" But the reality is, you never posted to defend anyone either...

    I know technically it's not your job to either defend the devs or defend the classes, but what no one realizes is how powerful the devs are when they have this division between the classes. We don't defend other classes. We only defend our own classes. When casters get nerfed, the others classes say boo about it, or worse they get on these forums and post every scrap of evidence why they think the nerf was needed. When tanks get nerfed, the non-tanks say boo about it. The devs are free to nerf us one class at a time because they know there are deeply-rooted divisions among us.

    It's sad. Sad for all of us.

    Welcome to the nerf boat. There's standing room only in the back.
  13. Kunon Augur

    For anyone that has been around for any amount of time they know that the devs always take away, they do not give. It is infinitely easier to lower abilities than to increase abilities that then have to be balanced around other things and classes. If anyone had any doubts about the devs taking the path that is the easiest and quickest, the paltry amount of content they are putting forward with the next release should be all you need to finally realize how things are.

    And once a class gets nerfed others get hit sooner or later to maintain *balance.* You might smile at one class getting nerfed, but that means you class didn't get buffed. Instead your class has just moved up a spot in line to get hit next. If anyone thinks this is the end of the changes they are fooling themselves. Every archetype and every class is going to get with more *changes* during the next 6 months.

    Even in this thread there are the *unintended* nerf calls. "But this class can do this." or "I don't want you to nerf this class BUT..." Never ending cycle. Move along folks, nothing new to see here.

    And there it is. No one called for nerfs, but were *defending* themselves. Many posts defending a class involve "But this class other class can..." The very definition and perfect example of the *unintended* nerf call.
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  14. Makavien Augur

    No one in any of them threads even mentioned nerfing anyone other then the people defending themselves which were not tanks.

    And I posted why I think this is bad for my class in the beta forums and as you see I am kinda indifferent to this change because I am not sure why they are doing it yet.
    I just know its going to be bad when I die and can't jump in quickly to be the next tank up again even with no discs left to do anything anyway.

    Which is already the same problem we have aa to get aggro but not enough to help us survive mitigation or avoidance wise.
  15. Tearsin Rain Augur

    no, it couldn't have.

    they tried basically that with PoWar and a huge numbers of people flipped out - if you want to see content tuning via the content itself, don't have massive temper tantrums when 1 out of 275 unique zones is actually difficult.
    Baramos likes this.
  16. Naugrin Augur

    I remember most people saying leave db alone....I know I said it.
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  17. Elricvonclief Augur

    As a paladin main, with a berzerker alt, I've been trying to understand the reasoning behind this. It just does not make sense.

    The implications from nerfing Rest are huge on raids, sadly.

    The only thing I can come up with, is that they want to make current content more difficult.
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  18. Langya Augur

    I have no issues with PoW other than I wish I had more free time to play there. If others do have issues with PoW , than that is their problem. They can get better, bring more friends or not play there.

    Are you in favor of all these nerfs? I can't quite discern what your point is.

    Its a heckavah feces-y way of bringing challenge into the current content don't you think? If that is the goal than they need to COMMUNICATE better. Not just roll out the nerfs and say nothing of what the impetus was. Half of why people get thoroughly pissed off at the devs, at the PR people etc and think they are the definition of incompetence is they just go about things in a partial vacuum quite often. Maybe they could have just made content more varied from the get go, instead of resorting to a carpet bombing.
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  19. Baramos Augur

    Sigh. Exactly right.
  20. Tearsin Rain Augur

    sorry - this was my fault, i was responding to your point and finger-pointing at the vague general crowds who complained, not suggesting it was you personally.

    in favor? no - i'm a raid leader, there's never a point at which a reduction in the logistical and tactical efficacy of my raid can be called a good thing, and the Rest change is a very big hit to tactical efficiency.
    i very sincerely hope that this change is accompanied by a retune of disc costs, and/or passive end regeneration.

    the changes to claw and to enc runes i don't care about one way or the other - the former is a small reduction to a class capable of phenomenal DPS so it's not like suddenly they're going to suck after this.
    and the rune thing... well, it sucks for those that use runes.

    my point is, as it often is, that the populace of this forum is once again using extremely poor arguments when discussing game related matters.
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