Massive Ban Hammer Mega Discussion

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Dartmon65, Jul 1, 2022.

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  1. strongbus Augur

    I have no issues with derv trying to stop cheating. But in a game like this. Maybe its time to beat them by joining them. you want people to stop using this 3rd party software. ok write your own version of the software and charge extra for it. the vast majority of the people will move over to yours. then just hit the ones using the 3rd party software. This way the derv can decide what can and can't be done with the software.
  2. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    This is a thought experiment:

    1. There would be official Darkpaw software.

    2. There would be automation-approved and no-automation servers.

    3. Krono and character transfers cannot exist between automation and non-automation servers due to the disparity between automated gameplay and non-automated gameplay.

    Do I expect people keep automation on automation-approved servers? Of course not. They love the advantage (the cheat): automated wealth and power acquisition against non-automated players.

    Why pay 125 million platinum for 1 Krono on an automation-approved server when I can try to sneak my cheats (via burner accounts) and pay 3 million platinum for 1 Krono on a no-automation server?
  3. Larsen Lorekeeper

    Yeah, that's like taking a desert island with no human habitation and then trying to tempt a thief into moving there by saying stealing is legal on that island. Think he's gonna leave society for that? Nobody would play on an isolated botting server because botters are not the ones buying kronos from other botters.
    minimind and Benito like this.
  4. Sythrak20 Elder

    Nah, Riz was implied to be that server but they changed stances or there was an enormous misunderstanding based on those community discussion logs posted. People that are in it for making money sure, but a good portion of the people that wanted to just play went to Riz.
  5. FranktheBank Augur

    Oh good, a useless Magician reply, just what this thread needed.

    Literally none of what you said is relevant or actually what is happening in this thread, but thanks for participating.

    Way to dodge every single discussion point. Truly impressive.
  6. Machen New Member

    Making a careful distinction between at-the-keyboard automation and afk automation, this is basically what Rizlona was when it launched. Then DPG changed their minds a year or so in and decided they didn't actually want such a server. Their loss, thousands of subs down the drain.
  7. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    To be clear, the "thought experiment" distinction is between Darkpaw-supplied automation software and no automation at all. Yeah, it would kill cheaters' bottom line. The pro-cheat crowd often tries to create a largely fallacious distinction of the deniable "at-the-keyboard automation" schema. (This is like arguing that toggle on/toggle off makes aimbots totally acceptable in FPS games). It's as if they have a suggested bullet point on the user guide after downloading the cheat software.

    This Rizlona theory is based on unofficial, off-the-cuff remarks by a former producer (Holly) in a brainstorming Q&A held by a third-party gamer site.

    This is the actual ruleset at launch:

    Rizlona Ruleset:


    "...thousands of subs down the drain...": You mean subs via redeemed Krono gained by automators selling loot from monopolized camps. If rule-abiding players lose faith in the system (due to rampant cheating), they will simply no longer buy Kronos. Botters are only interested in their self-interest (i.e. RMT) no matter the damage to the game.
    minimind likes this.
  8. Sythrak20 Elder

    Gonna need some statistics and sources to back up your claims. Got any?
  9. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Holly in the roundtable:
    Source from another software thread:

    Holly goes no further in clarifying her position between I S B, M Q, and keyboard play. One cannot definitively infer that 'offline/automation' is a two part conjunctive statement. (It could have been an 'and/or' or 'or' statement). She seems to have a clear grasp of botting (automation) in her statement which alludes to possibly drawing a distinction between I S B and M Q even though some of the audience is alluding to - straining for - "at-the-keyboard" designation. (I'm sure Holly was aware of deniability of "being at the keyboard": a.k.a. "just trust me").

    Again, these statements were made in what was basically a unofficial brainstorming session for players. There was no official follow up. Holly has since left studio and any remarks have zero bearing on the current direction of the game.

  10. Sythrak20 Elder

    I was alluding to everyone pays for their accounts via afk camping and kronos. But hey I'm all for scorched earth. Ban everyone. Then we can finally lay to rest the argument whether they pay for a large chunk of the game. I'm leaning towards somewhat from their weird banning/suspending one account vs. just banning them all.
  11. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    Man, DPG/EG7 wishes everyone would pay for their accounts in Krono.
    Gnothappening likes this.
  12. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    I personally think they should perma-ban automated tanks and healers to send a message but limit the damage to the individual.
  13. Dre. Augur

    Helpful types of communication:
    1. Listing the specific names of programs that will result in a ban.
    2. Describing specific behaviors that will result in a ban.
    3. Enumerating 3rd party software uses that are acceptable.
    Unhelpful types of communication:
    • Links to ToS/vague stuff we already know (Has it changed?)
    • Excuses for why communication is vague and unhelpful
    Look, we get it. CS wants to keep the rules "loose" enough to be enforced with discretion. While forum junkies like myself might be a bit more savvy, unfortunately for your average player this is about clear as mud. Not to mention that a technically-minded person might roll their eyes at the attempts to half-correctly technobabble to the public. Also consider that the majority of the players probably never read the official communications so they never see this info. What they want to know is "If I'm using tool X that half of my guild is using will I get banned?" What they need to understand is #1-3 above.

    Instead what happens are strings of text that would be helpful in disclosing this information are auto-filtered from official communications sources. Instead, players daily see behavior that throws an error code in their moral processing that's seemingly allowed. Instead they see person A getting banned while person B does the same thing in the same place and isn't. Instead they see their friends getting suspended for simply AFK/falling asleep in the wrong place/time/group. Instead, the official answer is always "read this unclear link/form letter". Instead, the answer from their fellow players is "Yes/No/maybe/maybe not/nobody cares/what program?/better not to be safe/this is what I do". Instead, all the info they get is not very helpful when what they want to understand is #1-3 above.

    But hey, let's take it to the next level. You know what's completely backwards about the situation here? The indignation toward, rather than an enthusiastic embrace of a playstyle that a huge percentage of your playerbase seems to want to engage in.
  14. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    This is an excellent analogy.

    Even if Darkpaw opened a dedicated server for automators, cheating (i.e. advantages granted by automation for farming platinum or chase loot) would still be a problem outside that server.

    Botters buying Krono from other botters would be equivalent to rolling up in a dump truck of worthless paper money to buy a single loaf of bread in a collapsed economy. Instead, they will continue to target a healthy economies (no automation servers) and buy entire bakeries with their dump truck of cash.
  15. Pappasalt Augur

    Until they actually introduce proper anti cheat, which will never happen cuz the population would drop, this is pointless. This is just their yearly showing that they are "doing stuff to combatant the cheating menace." Which btw has been going on for over two decades and nothing done lol.

    So let me know when they are actually going to do proper things to deal with it instead of blind suspending people who may have VMware on their computer for other things lol.
    Dre. likes this.
  16. Elemtal Lorekeeper

    I hear they are suspending people for using number lock to auto run now
  17. Febb Augur

    I hear they suspended a guy wearing suspenders and put him into suspended animation.

    Jumbur likes this.
  18. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

  19. CatsPaws Augur

    Yearly? What rock have you been under?

    January 8 massive suspensions right before 1st raid tier unlocks
    February 5 again massive suspensions right before 2nd raid tier unlocks

    Its clear this is not a one time or "yearly" showing but is now going to be monthly. Although I think they did take June off.

    Yes it has been going on for over 2 decades and suspensions were done and will continue to be done. More often as they improve the anti-cheating code.
    On Friday, December 9, 2011 the first wave of accounts were suspended as a result of the new anti-cheating code in EverQuest. This included suspensions on more than 700 accounts for a number of days by way of a first warning.

    The difference that is now popping up is accounts are being banned as opposed to just suspended. But just like burglary and robbery - few people know the difference.
    Stymie and Start like this.
  20. MacDubh TABLES!!!

    If you are punished as a result of breaking the rules and then you modify your behavior to no longer break the rules then no, you should not be punished again. If this was the intent then there is no need for suspensions and all cheating should be a perma-ban.

    It is like getting caught speeding at mile 100 and getting a ticket, then you start driving the speed limit only to get another ticket because you were speeding at mile 90 as well. It is getting punished multiple times for the same crime. (I am sure this has probably happened in locations with speed trap cameras but it is still illogical)

    The only thing better than people defending cheating is the people who will defend their insane logic to persecute cheaters.
    Stymie and FranktheBank like this.
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