Massive Ban Hammer Mega Discussion

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Dartmon65, Jul 1, 2022.

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  1. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    So, you want the Melody and Auto-Skill, Auto-Fire features removed in EQ right?
  2. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    I long for the day when someone says aimbot could be an essential feature of Fortnite or Planetside 2 so players can focus on strategy. LOL.
  3. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    You're going off on a tangent and not-addressing my question. You want the automated features in the game removed right (melody, autoskill, auto-fire)?
  4. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Big difference between highly limited features versus warping, monk tracking, and full blown scripts that run every aspect of your character.

    Again, this is like saying aimbot facilitates strategy in FPS games.
    A_ranger001 likes this.
  5. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    Again, you're going off to argue about things not related to my reply. There are existing automated features that would enhance the quality of life and accessibility for EQ.

    Melody exists, which is automated spell casting. Auto-skill exists for melee characters. Foraging and fishing can be repeated 3 times with a single in-game macro.
  6. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    It sounds like you are very happy with the state of the game as those features strike the right balance.

    What are beyond those features to add? What would not be covered by I S B (permitted)? Full blown automation, warping, and monk tracking? I'm against those.

    Edit: The labels for cheat functions are descriptors. (Terms such as 'aimbot' and 'warping' are fully acceptable terms to use in FPS parlance including Daybreak's Planetside 2 - as PS2 Dev Wrel has recently fought against hackers). I fully condemn cheating contrary of some of the posters wanting to muddy the waters (equivocate, obfuscate, and convolute) and even wrongly suggest that it is acceptable behavior.
  7. FranktheBank Augur

    This is a pattern with you, but this is not a good faith argument. You are talking about the forest and my example of bandolier was a tree. M Q by default actually does not allow warping and most people uses tracking are not using M Q for it.

    Example of features that could be integrated;
    - bandolier, but for gear (hello necro wound and capes),
    - a visible range number (so we could actually know how far 200' is without taking off focus and spamming a spell)
    - auto foraging (no one in the history of everquest has foraged 1000 items legitimately) - bonus points for filter to auto destroy stuff you dont want
    - auto fishing (basically the same as forage)
    - stat food QOL (please end the force feeding water flasks and bread)
    - guild hall portal setting
    - being able to selling a loot filter on an item when you have a link for it (someone links you an item you want to roll on, you just click Always Need right there)

    Perhaps the biggest is actual decent /follow

    DPG could also extend the usefulness of mercs (shaman, bard, etc etc) and have basic customizable options (hey, maybe cleric merc, stop casting hot, because you are bad at it)

    These are all basic QOL things (except the merc thing) that are cheating, but I believe we should have access to them.

    Edit: None of these things are even in the same realm as warping, afk automation for days/weeks.
    Skrab likes this.
  8. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    So you oppose all other functions and features of M Q not on this list?

    I would support this list if it meant a total end for broader M Q (automation, warping, tracking). But I think you are smarter than that.
  9. Stymie Pendragon

    Static IPs cost more per month than dynamic. A quick Google search showed around $15 a month with a one time $75 charge. Static IPs are generally used by businesses.
  10. FranktheBank Augur

    Why put a qualifier for your support? It's not really a binary position. You seem to want to categorize white/black, which is why you start off with a bad faith argument.

    My personal threshold for cheating isn't relevant to the discussion (to that point neither is yours). It's more about understanding.

    If your goal is to see a downturn of cheating, you really just need to find out why people are cheating. Which I know you and a few others are gonna be like "cuz people are bad and blah blah" but again, im trying to steer you away from those arguments.

    Edit: My hypothesis is that you see the value is those QOL, but have a brick wall in your mind that says CHEAT = BAD PERSON so you added those qualifiers.
  11. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Way to dodge the question.

    For all we know, your personal threshold is to allow full automation, warping, and tracking. You are not offering a good faith argument, sir. It's rather easy to condemn full automation or man up with a true position (ala "aimbot would facilitate FPS gameplay"); and hey, these features (list above) strike the right balance (not cheating but QOL improvements).

    This "gray line" or ambiguous continuum is just another way of muddying the waters: obfuscate, equivocate, and convolute what the studio and majority of players regard as cheating.

    See Angeliana's post about the rules - which is the standard and not our personal opinions:

  12. FranktheBank Augur

    Im not dodging the question. I'm attempting to not muddy the waters. My personal threshold is literally unimportant. Whether I am super hard line against it or yolo anything goes is not relevant.

    If it makes you feel better, my personal threshold is non-afk automation. If someone is at their pc playing a character (like a tank or a cleric or something) and the other group members are essentially performing basic tasks themselves (like advanced mercs) I personally dont care. I think warping is a line too far. Again, not relevant to the points I am making because I do not make policy.

    I'm not even saying the people who ONLY use the listed features arent cheating by defintion. They are in the eyes of the company. There is no obfuscation except your strawman.

    We are way out in the weeds of the discussion because you couldn't just say, "oh those ARE neat QOLs that I would like to see in EQ, but i dont condone them from a third party program"
    Tweakfour17, Timmyboi and Skrab like this.
  13. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    See Daybreak's rules (Angeliana's post). We agreed to them.

    We are making progress. I find solace that you have continued your strategic ambiguity by staking a position in the deniable form of full automation. This is the MMO equivalent to turning on and turning off aimbot in an FPS game.

    Daybreak has to enforce the rules based on what the software could do (full capabilities) and not what the user would do ("just trust me, bro").
  14. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    The 'benign features' aspect of M Q was a strawman of your own creation.

    You want to create this distinction to (1) muddy the waters and (2) gain a foothold to broader acceptance of blatant cheating (vis-a-vis Darkpaw's rules and majoritarian view). You've hedged to conceal your intentions.

    It would be rather easy to describe QOL improvements without ascribing such ideas to any software. It's ironic how such "QOL improvements" must always inseparably come in a package with full automation, warping, and monk tracking.
  15. Timmyboi Dunning Kruger Award Winner

    Yeah this discussion is circling the drain...
  16. Branntick Augur

    How does it feel to be living in 2006?
  17. FranktheBank Augur

    Benito, the problem is, you aren't just not trying to learn, you are actively running away from discussion.

    You finding solace in my position proves this. My stance has nothing to do with your lack of ability to apply critical thinking.

    Then there is the blatant lying here;

    Your own point here is incredibly dumb. Do you know how trivial it would be for the GINA Dev to add a feature that not only shouts at you that X has happened, but to react and do [something]. That would (probably) make the software not allowed in Daybreak's eyes, even though GINA was previously accepted.

    I'm not concealing my intentions. You are trying to assume my intention then throw mud all over it. You are using strawman incorrectly, because you are the one replacing the real subject with a false one.

    Where in god's name did anyone ever say the QOL was inseparable? Are you seriously dense enough to believe my point was that M Q should be allowed because of the features listed? If that is what you believed, you need to go to the hospital, then come back and read what I wrote when you are feeling better.

    I SPECIFICALLY said the features should be integrated into the game, much like bandolier is. Do you use a 3rd party for bandolier? No. Because its SEPARATE.
  18. Magician9001 Augur

    Step 1 Cheat and get caught. Say you did nothing wrong.
    Step 2 Keep cheating and get caught. Say you cheated in the past but really guys this time i did nothing wrong.
    Step 3 Start arguing with people on the forums like you're not lying.
    Benito and Nennius like this.
  19. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Funny how your previously civil tone has devolved into a full blown ad hominem tirade. It's quite disproportionate to my late responses.

    I hit a nerve by shining light on your agenda. As Louis Brandeis once said, "Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants."

    Upon being confronted at the core merits of your argument, you can no longer exist as a self-described fence-sitter (really, a pro-automation advocate trying to muddy the waters). Checkmate.
  20. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Quoted for truth. This is their modus operandi.

    They apologize after getting caught until they get caught again....

    (Human nature and self-interest takes a predictable trajectory).
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