Massive Ban Hammer Mega Discussion

No, because you can take your receipt for having the tint removed and they will remove that second ticket. Any visual "fixable" violation (such as a broken windshield or not caring your insurance card) can be removed by providing proof so depending on your state you should be able get the first one removed too.

Unless your in California and this is your 3rd strike

The threat of escalating actions? That is what is happening and people are complaining about. If it was just a single punishment like some are asking for there would be nothing they could escalate punishment wise. In order for there to be a threat of escalating punishments it has to be happening and people need to see the results of those punishments.

That is the wrong question. It is also the wrong viewpoint to take if your goal is to get people to change their ways. If you really want people to reform, you have to punish and allow them to change. If you go back and punish people over and over for the same thing, just because it was a different day, then it is pointless to change.

Let's say a person cheats for a week. They get caught and suspended. Using your logic they now have to worry about being being suspended at least six more times. By doing that you just removed any teeth than a suspension carries because this person now has to worry, whether they cheat again or not, that they will be suspended.

If the goal is to continually punish, whether the person stops the offensive behavior or not, they are better off to just ban the person.

Most of this is exacerbated because, in order to keep detection methods secret (which is understandable), they never suspend everyone they catch and they never let them know when they did the offensive action. They also make mistakes. They might be rare, but they do make them. Most of the mistakes aren't because of their detection methods, they are because jealous players report people they don't like and when a GM shows up, they may miss a /say during a fight.

Close but not quite. A better analogy is imagine a cop sees you drive past with illegally tinted windows for a year. Instead of busting you the first time he sees you, he writes up a ticket, but by this imaginary state's laws, he doesn't have to serve you with it. He lets these build up every day for the entire year. Finally, one day he pulls you over and gives you the citation. You go and have your tint removed. A month later he then busts you for the 8 day he saw you with illegal tint. Even if you deal with this fine, he still has months more of secret tickets that he has written and that all he has to do is turn in. At this point you are wondering why you ever bothered having the tint removed.

No, people are complaining because there is no chance to reform. If you’ve been detected using software at all you are at risk of being banned, it’s just a matter of if your name gets drawn out of the hat. You could use it 1 time and never load it again and still get hit with 3 separate strikes for that 1 session. For instance you were detected navigating through PoK, strike 1, you were detected automating buff routine, strike 2, you were detected using the enhanced map feature, strike 3.

If changing your ways does nothing, just ban on first offense and bl be done with it.

There would be escalating actions. If you continued to cheat after the slate was "wiped clean" your account would still show a previous suspension, so then when you inevitably get flagged a 2nd time post 1st suspension your punishment is strike 2 (14days). Repeat a 3rd time and perma ban.

It is wrong to think that people will continue to cheat until they get punished because they know that punishment will clear out all their past infractions?

People are also claiming that they are not cheating anymore but we have no way to prove if that is true or not. In the end if they don't want to be punished for cheating they shouldn't have cheated in the first place.

We don't know the reasons behind a suspension other then the generic cheating response. It is very likely that they are being punished for actions that occurred after the first action that they got punished for. Daybreak doesn't provide much info around the suspensions and we have to take the word of the players about them no longer cheating.

Except that is not at all how the system works.

The EQ system or Legal System? Do you have insider information in to the EQ workings and/or are you a lawyer or paralegal?

Just want to make sure I am not taking advice from someone who has no basis for what they are talking about.

The post is making silly claims about the legal system which is what my response is about. What happens with Daybreak and cheating is up to them and we have no control over it.

Yes, it is very wrong.

I keep hearing how a single punishment will keep people from cheating again but I would disagree with that. If that was the case then people wouldn't be cheating in the first place after reports of others getting suspended/banned for their cheating. The problem is people will continue to cheat until it impacts them and we need to be encouraging people to never cheat to begin with or stop cheating before they get punished.

But you aren’t encouraging people to stop cheating AT ALL with this system. If you stop using programs all together today, there’s still a good chance you’ll be punished for using it yesterday. If you are going to be punished for behavior whether you stop or continue, you might as well continue.

He said it, guys. It happened.

So, you admit people should be encouraged to stop cheating. Thank you. Now, under the current climate, if you have cheated once, at all, in the last ~12 months, then you are getting suspended for 7-14d and potentially eating a ban, even if you have stopped cheating.

If they want the punishments to stop they have to stop cheating otherwise they will get in a cycle that will end with them losing the ability to play at all.

So that I understand your POV...

Once a cheater, always a cheater. Cheaters can never change and reform and be better. So if you have cheated for three months and then finally get caught on July 1 2022, then why even bother with a one week suspension? Just ban the account because eventually the powers at be are going to discover what you were doing in April May and June 2022 and retroactively punish you as a result. It may take weeks, months, years... but hey, once a cheater always a cheater. And the account may get its second suspension on March 1 2023, and the entire time between July 1 2022 and March 1 2023 the account never did anything wrong and never cheated once. But hey... once a cheater, always a cheater.

Am I right?

But stopping doesn’t end the cycle. If it did then we wouldn’t be having this argument.

As I have been saying all along, it is just that I disagree with you that a single punishment wiping out all occurrences of cheating. You keep claiming that it will get people to stop cheating while I see it as encouraging them to cheat up to the point they get caught. If there is no difference with how long you cheat in your single punishment why bother to stop at all until you get caught?