Maybe these limitations aren't so bad, and I can get around them by relying just slightly more heavily on the player base of the server and game. Pandemonium is recruiting. We value the quality of your actual character more than your in-game character. Requirements include level 105, 7.5k aa, and that you are 30 wizards. Server transfers accepted if you are already 30 wizards. If you are already on zek and at least 22 wizards, I think we can work with that.
He said that they can use PBAE CC on raids without problems. Arx 5 would be no issue since you have to kill 0 liches to succeed. Originally, this was what I was wondering myself and why I posted my question. The top raid guild on your server is in Arx. All of TDS raids are not melee friendly and most are not AE friendly aside from needing crowd control. So in current content, I don't see how you're that worse off than a blue server. Don't answer questions if you don't want but you gave 0 actual cases where this would make or break a raid. Your only examples really are people griefing or accidentally screwing up - both of which happen in different ways on every server.
The LAST thing we need is Daybreak wasting precious resources on Zek AE issues. There must be a thousand things in game that are more in need of resources than this.
Precious resources have been wasted on individual servers before (FV and the dusty exp pots,) not to mention the crazy sect of people that are getting a progression server they're going to end up hating anyway, so I think precedence says its okay for them to do this, and I agree. PvP doesn't occur instances, since joining an instance is consensual, so it isn't like the global pvp game is going to be screwed up by making changing it so that instances = no pvp. Zek players have been asking for this reasonable change for a long time. You just haven't seen them asking about it until now since their forum was deleted.
A reasoned response Kellaer. I'm just pointing out priorities for a company that is so short on resources. Hell's bell's, Merc's are even working right. There are just so many things that need attention.
They fixed the mercs internally at least. What a weird bug. As for "short on resources," its true. But that is always going to be true. If we use that as a reason not to do something, nothing can ever be done. The small amount of people on Zek deserve this, they've been waiting too long.
Alright Silv, I don't mean any disrespect, but this is an issue that I've dealt with for a long time, so I guess it's time for a rant that describes it in perhaps great enough detail for you to understand that it is something that is really bad, and should just be fixed already. I don't think you really read the thread from the beginning if that is your impression, or I think you have some strong previous bias of some kind. If it's all no big deal, why not play at the same state that everyone on zek is playing in for raids every day. It won't make or break any raids at all right? And things that don't specifically make or break the raid you are currently doing, but that you bear the burden of day in and day out never affected anyone, right? -Make all your berserkers delete their ae rampage abilities from their hotbar, no extra attack with the primary hand every round during those discs.. that's fair.. -Make all your mages delete all their rain spells, and unless they're all great (because no raid force ever has a mage that isn't great), make sure the ones that aren't remove swarm pets from their hotbar. Telling some mages that they are bad and that you don't trust them never did anything bad to anyone. Heck I died to mages that forgot to put their pet on ghold because not having it on ghold is useful sometimes in pvp, so you might as well just take the mage pets out too. Take them all out, so that you don't offend anyone or seem like some sort of egotistical monster. -Make all the wizards remove every rain and ae they have from their hotbar, this isn't the club. It doesn't rain here. -Make all the rogues delete their ae rampage ability from their hotbar, because that's out. -Make all the beastlords delete their ae nuke and revert to the level 100 focused version of their flurry of claws type disc that is single target only. -Make all Monks take destructive force off their hotbar. I assume that helps their dps but if it does it's not doing it today! -You know that raid loot you got from Argin Hiz? the 2hander that dropped? Make sure no one's using that, because its proc is AE!! I mean you don't deserve to be able to use that raid loot that you raided for, do you? Or don't, and just deal with the drama that ensues when it kills some guy that has pvp'ed a lot and is/was proud of his 20 kill streak. That sort of issue happening here and there is no big deal, and it will never wear thin on anyone that pvp's a lot and is proud of their achievements. -That essence of vex thing that does an ae, don't use that for similar reasons. -just for fun, make sure you let all the rangers and druids know which ones you think are trustworthy and which ones you think aren't by only assigning the ones you know won't vineleash cascade the raid when dealing with events where you need vineleash cascade, because that's unavoidably needed, and you don't want them to hit people with that. Main tanks love it when you root them on arx because they were forting the imps. That one they can get around with furious leap, but it's really fun when it only lands on them right before fort wears off, and they aren't expecting it. So obviously with this identical dps to blue servers that we must I guess have appreciated for years, everyone is going to have the same amount of gear as blue servers right? Because it doesn't matter at all? There's not ever going to be an un-quantifiably large number of raid days where you could have done another event if you had that sort of extra dps, or the other issues I'm bringing up in this thread weren't problems, is there? Now let's do a raid where you absolutely need all of the dps that your guild can crank out to win the event, because that never happens at any point in everquest's history, they make every event based on other factors like sustaining the tank or mezzing exactly 6 mobs in a circle which would not conflict with this issue right? Looks like you just can't do the event due to an unintended consequence that Silv thinks is totally fine based on Reval's explanation not being so all encompassing that in really reflects the issue as a whole, and just shows obvious flaws which seriously need to be addressed. Looks like we're off to a good start. Let's pretend instead of just being you and pretending to be me, you're actually me at various points in eq's history. Let's do one of those old raids.. how about the one where you get a dot and if it gets cured it dt's everyone from SoD. Oh look, all those deaths from that dot COUNT AS PVP DEATHS so the people that died are snared, and get various other detrimental effects meant to stop people from bind rushing. Well that was bad, let's go to a raid where you are supposed to charm mobs to kill the boss, like the second event in SS, or the boss of Anguish, or the event with tops in MMM, or that event to flag for Tacvi, or some new event that invokes this time honored tradition of a mechanic. OH NO the warrior used enhanced ae taunt and now the pet is attacking him and kills him even though you had /pet ghold on and /pet focus on because that's how various aggro dots seem to work. I guess he got upset about it because he's a human being and has free will so now we're out a tank for the night. Let's try that event again... OH NO another enchanters that is not me was named Gabrean and didn't have /pet ghold on killed at least 8 people with the OMM pet for whatever reason. No one will be bothered by the fact that that lost us the event or the pvp deaths. Let's do that raid that's the first event in the tower where you fight Sullon Zek that was petitioned like a million times because you outright couldn't do it on zek due to this sort of mechanic. I forget the exact reason but I remember not being able to beat it due specifically to pvp issues until I think the expansion after it came out when the level difference made it possible, or the event was changed due to a patch. That was a fun several months wait due to a roadblock caused by exactly what I'm talking about in this thread, hey let's go to dreadspire and do Tris Wallow, OH NO she charmed someone and they died to a damage shield or riposte because when people are charmed by her, for some reason they're unbelievably weak, and that also counts as a pvp death so they're slightly demoralized and also have pvp rez effects. No wait I meant to say they're NOT demoralized, because the.. moving on.. Well you can't lose em all, let's do an event that has none of those mechanics and is a straight burn. OH NO a rogue that is a great person generally but maybe just a little old or watching netflix autoattacked on another person until they died, that won't cause any drama or issues ever in history. Hey guys all that raiding was fun, let's do an exp group. I'll just turn my int caster dps merc on ae burn and pop illusions of grandeur aaaand we're all dead because it one to two shotted the entire group (don't worry though Silv, you're still alive because enchanters are cool on Zek and nothing else will ever matter). Hey we have this new app that's a rogue that wants to get exp and there's a great warrior in the group, let's.... not use what is probably the premier rogue grinding ability for groups. That sounds like a good idea. What's that? the app was a berserker? well clearly none of what I've just said applies! Maybe we should stick to raids.. let's go back to that time in plane of tactics when I died, and a necro wanted to use wake the dead, and rezzed me with the unintended consequence that the tank aggroed dead reval and I charmed the tank, (sidenote, only dead reval ever got to charm any players and only while wake the dead pets could cast spells, but are you starting to see how this sort of issue can be detrimental to raiding to enough of a degree that it should be fixed?) Let's do the plane of water corinav raid where you used (you guessed it) Wave style mezzes to mez the large quantity of mobs that were impossibly hard for any tank to gather all of. That mez won't mez any of the people and only will mez the mobs because Reval didn't make his original post long enough to encompass all of these additional things. Let's do some event where we obviously need all the dps we can get, so you allow mages to use pets, but you also have to mez.. OH NO another mage had /pet ghold off and virulent talon on and killed the enchanters again. OH NO looks like you were low health and a ranger tried to heal you but didn't hit the key to turn autofire off and you just died again on some random raid. I also mentioned tower of rot, and a few other examples that if you read them I think you'd understand why this should be done. I get that in some perfect world, where I can just recruit 30 wizards, this issue would be a moot point, but this is the real world, and I'm just one person, there are probably tons of other examples that people could bring up as issues. It needs to be fixed already.
Let's not forget the viral shaman slow, that's a great spell to use for slowing a plethora of adds and probably your entire raid. Anyways my intention isn't to offend anyone, so if I did I'm sorry, but this issue should be fixed.
EQ pvp is not good, well balanced, or anything I'm currently interested in. BUT, pvp servers have been around forever. And the Zek players will strafe circles around most non-pvp players in terms of skill. They deserve to be able to raid at the intended difficulty, not in some NG+ mode that removes tons of abilities to make everything harder on top of having a low server population.
I forgot a few things. Like Beastlord Pets And Beastlord swarm pets And Bard swarm pets And Necro pets And Necro swarm pets And Shaman swarm pets And Shadowknight pets And Shadowknight swarm pets And Enchanter animations and Cleric hammers (lol I know enchanter animations? I'm really reaching there) And Wizard swarm pets And Berserker swarm pets And Rogue swarm pets And Monk swarm pets And how the extended target window fills up with these things when anyone uses them, and their initial purpose is exchanged for slightly damaging the main tank or others, but usually the main tank, and taking counters off of things like No Time To Bleed. And when people used to go linkdead on raids, they'd attack people, which again was something that people dealt with for years on end And Hail of Arrows. I could probably honestly go on with issues caused by this for like 5 more posts, but I'm going to leave it at this for now so that I keep my fingerprints.
Again though, the main issue that I'd like to focus on beyond this point, now that we've gotten that there are other issues that all by themselves would make this a reasonable request is the massive loss of character functionality (especially dps) that is caused by instances allowing pvp.
I would think the player base on Zek should get what they are asking for and PvP be suspended for raid instances. It just makes since because they are coming together to accomplish something not PvP each other during raids.
I agree that in instances on Zek, the PVP flag should be removed. However, someone a few posts ago listed a whole bunch of things that could adversely affect the raid to potentially wipe them. I saw the Wizard swarm pet in there. Now I am no wizard, but I think the Wizard swarm pet does something around 4 DPS. If a TDS raid guild cannot handle a rogue swarm pet doing 4 DPS, then I dunno.
It was probably put in just to fill out the list. Swarm pets from necromancers and mages are quite significant and it harms the class to a large degree if they are removed. Bard pets less so. And if mages can't use their rains, holy cow, why even have them in the raid?
Thanks for the explanation. Like I said, as someone who has never played on Zek, understanding all of the issues is a big help. While people say they shouldn't waste resources, they've maintained EQ PVP and made various changes throughout the years. It's not out of the realm of possibility to try and get a well justified change if it's that big of an issue; and that appears to be the case.
Well, a big issue that ends up happening is not that Zek needs the awesome 4dps shaman, bard, etc. swarm pets to push us over to win an event. The real issue, which I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned so far, is that when you are doing events that have lots of adds and then someone uses their swarm pets and, for example, a tank AE aggros. All those wonderful swarm pets clog up the extended target list with XYZ's pets.And since there's no way to control those, they sit there until they fade or die. I know there are ways around this, but it is annoying nonetheless. Of course we tell classes not to use those, but someone always does. I know a response will be "Well boot those people from the raid." We have but this is more of a side point to the fact that it really hurts some classes because once those pets get aggroed, they attack the tank or whomever and have actually killed people. Hopefully it can be addressed for instances only. It would really help the people that play on Zek.
