Make all the perks free or cancel them

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Paladorfthemighty, Sep 17, 2021.

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  1. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    I dislike conspiracy theories.

    If you make an argument or claim, be sure to back it up with authoritative evidence for each premise.
    Nennius likes this.
  2. Qelil Augur

    I think you are well aware that you are asking for the impossible as a convenient means to completely discredit other people's views which in fairness do have some basis in reality. In simplest terms, if EverQuest is making millions while we see lackluster expansions, unfixed bugs, etc. it does seem reasonable to me that profit taking (for whatever purposes, any purposes) is high versus investment in the continuing quality of the game experience over time.

    Do I have the financials? No. Of course I don't. Does that mean it is unreasonable or some sort of conspiracy theory to draw the conclusion I just did as at least a possibility? I don't think so.

    The bottom line is that they can clearly afford to invest some money in this game but we are not seeing it to our satisfaction in many cases. Whether or not that includes you I don't know but I do think better expansions and bug fixes should minimally be happening and I can't come up with any acceptable reason (to me) that they aren't given what data we did get to see.

    I will save you repeating that you need proof. I heard you already. Feel free to ignore circumstantial evidence all you want to while the rest of us to quote Bob Dylan, "don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows."
  3. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    989/Verant/SoE had how many PC games before EverQuest and how many brought in a huge profit like EQ did? The answer is 1 Tanarus & 0

    EverQuest was the biggest hit of its day and the biggest money-making game that 989/Verant/SoE had for a very long time, the money EQ made literally financed the development of all of their major titles since, where else do you think the studio was making money from in the amounts needed to fund development of Sovereign, EQOA, Planetside, Star Wars Galaxies, Free Realms and continued to support the studio even after those games were closed down, it funded EQ2 development, Planetside 2, EQNext and Landmark and marketing, it even allowed it to buy some games developed elsewhere like Vanguard and that's before we get into all the failed projects like 2001's RTS/MMO hybrid Sovereign, 2011's The Agency: Covert Ops and several others.

    Now I don't have private access to the accounts of 989/Verant or SoE but EQ paved the way for all of the other titles and financed a massive slab of SoE's output prior to being sold off as Daybreak, many of those games ran at a loss initially before starting to make enough money to pay for their own continued devlopment, DCUO included.

    Now we are being "given the option to spend more money on EQ" however that money is not being earmarked for EQ, why do I say that ?

    There is a graphics revamp of DCUO announced and in the EG7 presentations...who's paying for that? Well it isn't DCUO players, they haven't been asked if they would like to pay for a more expensive sub for some crap perks.
    There is a graphics revamp of LoTRO to capitalise on the hype around the Amazon TV show announced and also in the EG7 presentations...who's paying for that? Well it isn't LoTRO players, they haven't been asked if they would like to pay for a more expensive sub for some crap perks.

    How about the "new team" that is expected to be getting put together for H1Z1 (maybe), who's footing the bill for that?

    Well of course the profits from all of Daybreak's games figure into it a little but which is the most profitable game?
    And which is arguably the most neglected given its proft margins?

    And who do they want to squeeze?

    Same old teats as always.

    That's as authoritative as it gets without access to the books.
    Stymie, Qelil, Velisaris_MS and 3 others like this.
  4. Benito EQ player since 2001.


    It is one thing to express dissatisfaction. It is another thing to explicitly or implicitly suggest that the current leadership (e.g. JChan, Ji Ham) is neglecting the game or allowing the game to be exploited.

    If you don't have the evidence, don't make the claim.
  5. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Again, the same questions I posed to 'yepmetoo.'

    1. How do they define expenses (generally and specifically for EQ1)?

    2. How do we know that the EG7 presentation accurately reflects EQ1's past, current, or future revenue models and trends?

    3. How do you know that revenue is not going to past liabilities (e.g. EQNext debts) or other valid issues?

    To draw conclusions based on what happens in other games is supposition and innuendo, and not authoritative and conclusive information.

    Conspiracy theories will get you 'Likes.' But spreading rumors (i.e. "your money won't go back into EQ") can actually dissuade people from supporting the same game you proclaim to defend.
  6. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Money is being spent on 2 games - no extra money asked from those players.

    Money is not being spent on 1 game, the most profitable one, yet those players are being asked to spend more.

    It aint rocket science despite your best efforts at obfuscation.

    EQ NEXT "debts" is that your best shot? Now who's wearing the tinfoil conspiracy theory hat? That's not a strawman, that's an army of them.

    There are plenty of anecdotes from prior developers who were so pissed at the money EQ made squandered elsewhere isntead of being put back into the game, even Holly acknowledged that this was going on a lot and she made a lot of effort to change that, which she did but even then she never said all the money eq made was going back into EQ only more of it than before her.
    EQ has always been profitable, the layoffs were to make it even MORE profitable that it was.
    Fenthen likes this.
  7. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    You are like the Alex Jones of the EQ1 forums.

    Zero evidence beyond supposition and innuendo.

    EQNext debts is a valid concern. This is a far cry from claiming there is some Russian cabal exploiting this game. (Yes, I've heard your long-running narrative). See Occam's Razor.
  8. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    EQNext Debts
    Q: Who did Daybreak borrow money from?
    A: Nobody, they did not need to borrow since their earnings financed the expenditure.

    If debts existed for EQ NExt they would have been listed in the purchase details when EG7 bought them, because they would have been legally obliged to discose them as a risk to the business.

    Who is Alex?
    Stymie likes this.
  9. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Again, more assumptions with zero evidence.

    How do you know EG7's presentation accounts for everything? Are you privy to EG7's internal data and decision-making? Furthermore, unless you are a corporate attorney in Sweden, neither of us can properly assume the limits of the law.
  10. demi Augur

    there is no arguing with Benito .. you might as well say the sky is blue and he'd argue that point .. I've given up .. he wants concrete evidence/proof .. spreadsheets, invoices , bank statements from sony/DPG/ columbus nova , and personal interviews from Jchan and Hi whoever is the new CEO to prove .. well they dont give us those numbers for a reason cause the truth would come out ...

    " you want the truth , you cant handle the truth "

    sometimes , somewhere common sense has to take a hold and people need to figure out for themselves .. however no amount of head bangin will change their minds most times

    most of us know whats going on .. and can put 2 and 2 together :p how you like them apples ?
    lol well im trying , once again to add a gif but its not working :( .. it was sylvester the cat banging his head against a pole
    Stymie, Qelil and Fenthen like this.
  11. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    I've given my opinion and my reasoning none of which are baseless they were made upon observed behaviour. I cannot provide numbers that nobody outside of Daybreak have, but I can point out what is happening here and also what is not happening elsewhere that happened here. And I have the benefit of evident past behaviour of the studio, the evidence for that is out there in direct developer quotes and on video from people who were either developers or in management.

    I drew my conclusions, you can draw your own.
  12. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    It is misinformation that JChan and Ji Ham are being portrayed as working for a Russian cabal exploiting profits from this game. (Skuz's long-running conspiracy theory). If you are making those claims, you better have evidence to back it up (and practice what you preach: not play the game).
  13. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    I never mentioned JChan in any post referencing the Russian connections, so get your facts straight.
    I specifically stated Jason Epstein & Ji Ham as both were formerly on the books Columbus Nova executives/employees (that is a fact).
    And I don't need to make anything up, Massively did much of the investigative work on that, connecting CN to Renova and the other circumstances around that.
    None of which means I preached anything about playing or not playing, my concern was the style of business they conduct and how it would affect the game and us as players so your implied hypocrisy is entirely misplaced and a complete mischaracterisation.
    Stymie, Corwyhn Lionheart and Qelil like this.
  14. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Massively is a glorified "news" blog site who makes money on clicks and ads. The more salacious the articles (e.g. MMO-version of Russiagate), the more money they make. Nothing came about from the Columbus Nova connections to Renova (other than a highly tangential and arguably politicized connection to a sanctioned individual; many U.S.-based multinational companies and investment funds have stakeholders in Russia, China, and Saudi Arabia).

    If you truly believe Daybreak is an odious organization (morally or otherwise), I'd stick to my guns and not patronize the organization and game to begin with.

    Edit: Also, the Columbus Nova-Renova controversy pales in comparison to the current Blizzard saga. As Massively now "reports" that 2 state and 3 federal agencies have launched investigations into Activision-Blizzard. I don't think CN or Daybreak ever received a subpoena or target letter from the feds. Big difference. Let me be consistent: all parties are innocent until proven guilty.
    Allworth and Nennius like this.
  15. Sissruukk Rogue One

    And this is why threads get locked...
  16. Benito EQ player since 2001.


    Thread was lockable as soon as a meme of a "cash cow" was posted. If someone wants to voice their opinion, there may be disagreement.
  17. Velisaris_MS Augur

    These threads are much more interesting to read when you have one of the parties in the conversation on ignore. :D
    Stymie, Fenthen, Qelil and 2 others like this.
  18. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    Both sides are correct

    1. In the past EQ income was spent on other games
    2. EQ is currently is having money spent on EQ! Just look at the number of extra red names we have now.

    The proof will be in a months time when we see what we are getting in the next expansion. The proof will be in the next year or so when we get additional seasonal events (Naylie is going to be working on these after expansion release, as spoken about in EQ Discord).

    People will purchase the new "Perks" if they think they are worth it, if they don't purchase them it will be because they don't need/want them or think they are worth it. They won't be boycoted due to where the money from them will go or not go.
  19. demi Augur

    I agree with ^ this .. just cause my opinion on where EQ money does or does not go .. doesnt stop me from buying this expansion thats on sale right now (stupid illusions and 40slot bags) as well as when the pre-order comes out i'll be buying the basic expansion for my main account also..

    I will also be purchasing the "Perks " for a few of my accounts even though I think the perks aren't that great overall I do believe in supporting this game _for now_ .. who wouldn't want 2 extra inventory slots my main will like it plus a 5% bonus xp stackable and my trader will also get the bag Perk ..

    even though we all know the regular xp will be nerfed by 10% so the new 5% bonus perk wont really amount to much :p ;)
  20. Qelil Augur


    The current CEO has not had the opportunity to neglect the game yet in any demonstrable way. If by exploited you are referring to milking the cash cow with a subscription on top of a subscription to add minor features to the original subscription then yes, the buck does stop on the CEO's desk. They do own that decision and in the case of players unhappy with it they also own the ire directed at the company over it. There is zero to debate there. That's not supposition. It is fact.
    Skuz and Fenthen like this.
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