Why? If your killing light blues you should still be using rains. Are you modifying your spell lineup even when you arent using crit rate mods? If so you are probably hurting yourself unneccesarily.
I didn't test yet (and don't think i will, screw this), but if Chanter Haze was nerfed by as much as i think... every caster who benefited from us (on raids etc) prolly has taken a significant dps nerf hit.
The following parses have all been done inside Grand Guild Hall on the same Level 105 Combat Dummy Azia. The reason for this was primarily having buffs stay on me for the whole duration of the parse. I tried to hit the 30 minute mark (1800 seconds) to average out the DPS with an appropriate sample duration (Yes, Spell Twincast does not fade in GGH either, enabling me to average our peak-DPS under the effect of twincast and thus reducing the error margin due to RNG streaks). Note, NONE of the parses include chromatic haze procs, as my enchanter colleague couldnt be convinced to join the "fun". Test 1 - Sustained DPS without discs Mobs debuffed with Tash and Malo (both recasted once during the fight). TDS Raidlevel Fire/Magic focus, no discs. Simplified spellrotation: Coronal Rain -> Rain of Cutlasses -> Spear of Molten Shieldstone -> Spear of Blistersteel Combat Dummy Azia before patch in 1799s, 63699k @35408sdps --- Igniz 63699k@35408sdps (35408dps in 1799s) --- Coronal Rain Rk. III - 111 --- Howl of Tashan - 1 --- Malosenete Rk. III - 1 --- Rain of Cutlasses Rk. III - 113 --- Spear of Blistersteel Rk. III - 113 --- Spear of Molten Shieldstone Rk. III - 113 ____________________________________ Combat Dummy Azia after patch in 1802s, 64346k @35708sdps --- Igniz 64346k@35708sdps (35708dps in 1802s) --- Coronal Rain Rk. III - 111 --- Howl of Tashan - 1 --- Malosenete Rk. III - 1 --- Rain of Cutlasses Rk. III - 112 --- Spear of Blistersteel Rk. III - 113 --- Spear of Molten Shieldstone Rk. III - 113 Very slight increase (<1%); gaining a permanently running First Spire of Elements due to the changes in critdamage calculation compensates for the loss of DPS with our Rain-Spells. Test 2 - Burn without any aDPS available Mobs debuffed with Tash and Malo (both recasted once during the fight). TDS Raidlevel Fire/Magic focus, Fire Core, First Spire of Elements, Empowered Focus of Arcanum, Spell Twincast (note: this will not fade inside GGH, thus the effect of twincast held for the whole parse duration). Critical Chance is pushed to ~80%, thanks to first Spire. Simplified spellrotation: Coronal Rain -> Rain of Cutlasses -> Spear of Molten Shieldstone -> Spear of Blistersteel Combat Dummy Azia before patch in 1799s, 191592k @106499sdps --- Igniz 191592k@106499sdps (106499dps in 1799s) --- Coronal Rain Rk. III - 112 --- Howl of Tashan - 1 --- Malosenete Rk. III - 1 --- Rain of Cutlasses Rk. III - 112 --- Spear of Blistersteel Rk. III - 113 --- Spear of Molten Shieldstone Rk. III - 113 ____________________________________ Combat Dummy Azia after patch in 1813s, 161567k @89116sdps --- Igniz 161567k@89116sdps (89116dps in 1813s) --- Coronal Rain Rk. III - 112 --- Howl of Tashan - 1 --- Malosenete Rk. III - 1 --- Rain of Cutlasses Rk. III - 114 --- Spear of Blistersteel Rk. III - 114 --- Spear of Molten Shieldstone Rk. III - 114 Net loss of -16,32%. The arbitrary cap of 40% for critchance on rains is now not only eating up all boosts from having a permanently running first spire, but actually is now strong enough to yield a distinctive reduction in DPS. Test 3 - Burn including aDPS (without Chromatic Haze, though) Mobs debuffed with Tash and Malo (both recasted once during the fight). TDS Raidlevel Fire/Magic focus, Fire Core, First Spire of Elements, Empowered Focus of Arcanum, Spell Twincast (note: this will not fade inside GGH, thus the effect of twincast held for the whole parse duration). aDPS: Illusion of Grandeur (Enc), Auspice of the Hunter (RNG), Group Spirit of the Black Wolf (DRU) - used simultaneously - Critical Hit Chance now exceeds 100%, thanks to aDPS from three other classes. Simplified spellrotation: Coronal Rain -> Rain of Cutlasses -> Spear of Molten Shieldstone -> Spear of Blistersteel Combat Dummy Azia before patch in 1799s, 288342k @160279sdps --- Igniz 288342k@160279sdps (160279dps in 1799s) --- Coronal Rain Rk. III - 112 --- Howl of Tashan - 1 --- Malosenete Rk. III - 1 --- Rain of Cutlasses Rk. III - 111 --- Spear of Blistersteel Rk. III - 113 --- Spear of Molten Shieldstone Rk. III - 113 ____________________________________ Combat Dummy Azia after patch in 1798s, 237271k @131964sdps --- Igniz 237271k@131964sdps (131964dps in 1798s) --- Coronal Rain Rk. III - 111 --- Howl of Tashan - 1 --- Malosenete Rk. III - 1 --- Rain of Cutlasses Rk. III - 113 --- Spear of Blistersteel Rk. III - 112 --- Spear of Molten Shieldstone Rk. III - 113 Net loss of -17,66%. The critical hit chance cap on our rains eats a good chunk of the added benefits from other classes. We used to gain ~50% DPS to aDPS from DRU/ENC/RNG. The effects of these three classes did not stack with each other, iirc. Now they do, but the expected boost is fully compensated by the critical hit chance cap of our rains (netting us ~48% gain compared to burning without any aDPS). Test 4 - Full burn with aDPS, including pets, swarmpets, AA nukes, clickies ... Mobs debuffed with Tash and Malo (not recasted during the fight, as this parse is considerably shorter than the other ones). TDS Raidlevel Fire, Magic and Pet focus, Fire Core, First Spire of Elements, Empowered Focus of Arcanum, Spell Twincast (note: this will not fade inside GGH, thus the effect of twincast held for the whole parse duration). aDPS: Illusion of Grandeur (Enc), Auspice of the Hunter (RNG), Group Spirit of the Black Wolf (DRU) - used simultaneously - Critical Hit Chance now exceeds 100%, thanks to aDPS from three other classes. Combat Dummy Azia before patch in 325s, 64860k @199570sdps --- Igniz 48959k@150643sdps (153959dps in 318s) --- Igniz`s pet 8322k@25605sdps (25925dps in 321s) --- Custodias (Igniz) 7578k@23318sdps (23318dps in 325s) [Airpet, as I was too lazy to create a water pet for this) Rotation: Remote Remorseless Servant -> Coronal Rain -> Rain of Cutlasses -> Spear of Molten Shield. Added Force of Elements AA nuke and other clickies whenever they were up during global spell-cooldown. --- Breath of Mysaphar - 1 --- Coronal Rain Rk. III - 22 --- Force of Elements - 13 --- Lightning Breath - 1 --- Necromantic Curse - 1 --- Rain of Cutlasses Rk. III - 22 --- Remote Remorseless Servant Rk. III - 19 --- Spear of Blistersteel Rk. III - 3 --- Spear of Molten Shieldstone Rk. III - 22 --- Star Strike - 2 ____________________________________ Combat Dummy Azia in 325s, 54944k @169058sdps --- Igniz 39302k@120929sdps (122436dps in 321s) --- Igniz`s pet 8201k@25235sdps (25550dps in 321s) --- Custodias (Igniz) 7441k@22894sdps (22965dps in 324s) [Airpet, as I was too lazy to create a water pet for this) --- Breath of Mysaphar - 1 --- Coronal Rain Rk. III - 22 --- Force of Elements - 13 --- Lightning Breath - 1 --- Necromantic Curse - 1 --- Rain of Cutlasses Rk. III - 22 --- Remote Remorseless Servant Rk. III - 19 --- Spear of Blistersteel Rk. III - 3 --- Spear of Molten Shieldstone Rk. III - 22 --- Star Strike - 3 Net loss of -15,29% DPS. Pretty consistent with the other parses. All things considered, the carried out nerf to magician DPS is not quite as bad as originally feared, but still crippling. The only scenario where magicians did not actually lose DPS is while not under the effect of any kind of disc, as the "redistributed" critical damage multiplier compensates it pretty accurately. The higher we push our critical hit chance, though, more aDPS is needed to compensate the less to our rains. ________ I would like to ask a professional raid wizard, to supply equivalent, honest parses (preferrably if you happen to have pre-patch parses somewhere still)
igniz did you try a full on burn without rains? Curious to see what the difference would be then, other than the insane mana consumption.
Sadly, I forgot to parse a fullburn withtout rains pre-patch. It honestly didnt cross my mind as I am used to be able to use rains at least on bosses and that our rains are actually beneficial. Ill try to hit a post-patch parse with single-target rotation though. Edit: Here you go Combat Dummy Azia in 335s, 56955k @170014sdps --- Igniz 40724k@121564sdps (121564dps in 335s) --- Igniz`s pet 8561k@25556sdps (25787dps in 332s) --- Custodias (Igniz) 7670k@22894sdps (22963dps in 334s) --- Bolt of Molten Shieldstone Rk. III - 24 --- Breath of Mysaphar - 1 --- Force of Elements - 13 --- Lightning Breath - 1 --- Necromantic Curse - 1 --- Remote Remorseless Servant Rk. III - 20 --- Spear of Blistersteel Rk. III - 24 --- Spear of Molten Shieldstone Rk. III - 25 --- Star Strike - 3 Ended the parse with 24% mana left (Manapool 125.053) Edit 2: I chose Bolt of Molten Shieldstone Rk. III (17280 Damage, 1874 Mana) over the my Spear of Molten Steel (18111 Damage / 3097 Mana) as I only own the RK I version of this one. Also, the added mana cost would probably have drained me prematurely :-(
Right now I'm a lot more interested to see if this proc business works. I'll be running a parse tonight for sure!
Hate to ask and I appreciate your work. What ADPS was used for this parse? I it comparable to your test 4 parse above? Thanks
I assume wizard and necro are next... goodbye harvest refresh on claw for wizard? goodbye necro epic?
I haven't tested pet procs but now with three DD procs I'm getting a proc on ~37% of my spell casts, as opposed to ~25% of spell casts with 3 procs, ~30% of spell casts with 2 procs, and ~37% of spell casts with one proc. Ancient Hedgewizard's Brew is still proccing on ~37% of spell casts. I haven't tested less than three DD procs, but my guess is that they will continue to proc on ~37% of spell casts regardless and will no longer experience diminishing returns as far as proc rate All of the above tests use Remorseless Servant -> Storm of Many -> Rain of Cutlasses -> Coronal Rain -> Spear of Blistersteel.
Solo/molo in the group game you're still going to want to use rains. Because our only activated mod as far as crit chance goes is First Spire, we're running under passive mods most of the time. Passively, Rains are still well ahead of spears, and the mana usage is sooo much less on rains.
One of the only things holding me to my Necro when chanter is a better fit is all the work I put into his epic (by myself, since no one raids anguish anymore). If they nerf epic w/o offering some reward for getting, I'd probably roll chanter
It's sad but there are similarities to the whole "aggro as a thing" discussion from awhile back too. The net result was that Paladins got pretty boned. Just like aggro pong isn't fun, neither is running out of mana or having to hold considerably back. If these changes are in, maybe they could be convinced to beef up bolt a little bit for a sustained replacement? It's always felt a bit underwhelming to me.
They've already said this is coming as the boost you've had all these years (general you) wasn't ever supposed to be there. But who knows when/if it will come to fruition. This was before the company changed over and they were trying to figure out how to do it. Who knows, maybe splitting all these crit SPA's was the first step?
It would mean re-balancing dots, which honestly isn't a terrible thing. Necro dots are weird as s.h.i.t - spell power is a completely meaningless stat for them, if they don't crit they hit for pitiful damage, etc. But just like how other classes can still get some benefit from their epic, it would be fair to honor necro's with some kind of a non-cosmetic boost for having. But then again, who says anyone has to play fair
Sorry for the late reply! Yes, the parse with single-target nukes was under the exact same discs and aDPS as I used in Test 4: Mobs debuffed with Tash and Malo (not recasted during the fight, as this parse is considerably shorter than the other ones). TDS Raidlevel Fire, Magic and Pet focus, Fire Core, First Spire of Elements, Empowered Focus of Arcanum, Spell Twincast (note: this will not fade inside GGH, thus the effect of twincast held for the whole parse duration). aDPS: Illusion of Grandeur (Enc), Auspice of the Hunter (RNG), Group Spirit of the Black Wolf (DRU) - used simultaneously - Critical Hit Chance now exceeds 100%, thanks to aDPS from three other classes.
With that testing that would mean doing the old VoA way or keeping the same and retaining mana would be about the same, but still a net loss in dps. Very interesting.
In the solo/group game, I will continue to use rains. The other alternatives are not much better and drain mana much too quickly. In raids, we can add in Storm of Many, which makes RS->Storm->Spear->Spear an alternative weave to rains. I have to run more parses, but I believe Storm->Spear->Spear->Bolt may be the highest DPS weave on a full burn, and RS->Storm->Spear->Spear outside of TC while under ADPS. The less ADPS abilities we have on at a given time, the more appealing Rains are. Unfortunately it seems that depending on the effects on us at a given time, different weaves will be better (and we aren't talking about dropping RS on burns, but rather completely different weaves). While I suppose it could be worse, it's really going to be a PITA, on top of the DPS loss. Edit: Fixed a bunch of typos; posting on my phone is also a PITA
yeah a lot more concentration and knowing the event and your guild to switch between sets as needed to have the mana to continue and do the most dps you can. Not terrible if every class had to do it, just not ideal when only one has to
