And here's what it looks like when both have completed a rotation (turned off Dark Shield/Force/Orb just so the spell casts are clearer): At 128s you have exactly the same casts, in a 1:1:1:1 ratio like I said.
And it was on this day that the community realized the actual, more sinister purpose of Kizant adding Mages to the DPS app was to make Sancus explain how Kizant's addition of Mages works on the DPS app. well played, sir, well played.
LOL you change your spell lineup mid convo and nobody notices the bait and switch... all to make it seem like you dealt me a "gotcha" moment and pretend the amount of 110 spears would be the same. Watch this... So that was your original lineup that was being discussed, until I pointed out it would have less 110 spears than my lineup. Here comes your switch.... ...thats a slick move and it looks like I am the only one that cared to notice. Must be nice to be in that ivory tower with everyone unquestionably licking your boots. First helpful thing youve given me besides "think more". I was under the impression that the mages own conjurer synergy wouldnt fire without that checkbox checked in the app. Everything else is pretty much irrelevant since we are now discussing a different lineup than what you originally started with.
Sigh again? It really feels like you're skimming my posts and not actually reading them. Please re-read this: RS -> 110 Spear -> 105 Spear -> Chaotic is better than 110 Spear -> Chaotic -> RS -> 105 Spear because you're getting the 110 Spear on the Conjurer's Synergy proc. Chaotic -> RS -> Spear -> Spear is a different rotation that may be better than RS -> 110 Spear -> 105 Spear -> Chaotic depending on things. In my experience it usually is, but not always. That said, you should not be using 110 Spear -> Chaotic -> RS -> 105 Spear because you would gain DPS from using RS -> 110 Spear -> 105 Spear -> Chaotic. If you use the web app properly to compare lineups (that means use durations far longer than 20s), you will see that Chaotic -> RS -> Spear -> Spear normally does more DPS than either lineup mentioned. The only exception is if you increase RS damage substantially or potentially if you aren't getting the full benefit out of Chaotic because of gaps between fights. Now, I will again quote myself about shorter fights: What that means, for like the 5th time, is that for a 20 second fight, if you are then going to have a gap after the fight (so RS pets left over are wasted), you do not use one rotation. If you just have fast fights but you continually move to the next fight, then just looking at 20s on the web app is not giving you accurate information because your RS pets don't magically die when the next fight starts, your spell cooldowns don't magically reset, etc. Anything in between those two extremes is very variable and as such it doesn't make sense to prescribe one specific spell set. I don't know what I'm not explaining properly at this point. You gave a spell lineup. There are better spell lineups. You shouldn't even be using one spell lineup for what you're doing.
If you want to improve magician DPS, ensure you have an enchanter and druid and bard and ranger with you in the group. Have them all hit their burn discs, make sure you have 15+ pets on your mob, then hit your burn discs (including glyph) and then cast Volley after RS. Now after you do this, make sure you show the damage number to a wizard. Then go forum quest till your hearts content.
As far as me, I go Chaotic- RS- 110 Spear- Chaotic- 105 Spear. I do not care if this is the absolute 100% best group or solo weave. I think it is 97% effective and for me as a group/solo magician, that is good enough for me...
So no comment on the sneaky swap you pulled with your spell lineup? Ok then... I gave a weave that does more dps than the weave you originally posted, for virtually all time frames. Thats all. Then you snuck in a change to your weave and made this convo meaningless. Why continue?
And I'm not going to write another post saying the same thing, because it's clearly pointless. But if you use any duration that is able to reasonably account for the benefit of Chaotic procs, Chaotic -> RS -> Spear -> Spear is pretty clearly ahead. I will mention this briefly - the app's hard proccing twincast after a certain # of Chaotic "casts" too. That means you won't see any DPS increase from Twincast unless you set the app to at least ~55 seconds. Then you'll see a large spike in damage going from about 55-75 seconds. That's because, for the umpteenth time, the app is not designed to compare spell lineups, especially those with Chaotic during super short time frames. Anything past ~60 seconds has Chaotic -> RS -> Spear -> Spear of either of the other lineups I mentioned because it has more Chaotic casts. It's almost like using the web app to compare lineups in 20s fights isn't a good idea? Not sure where I read that before though....
I wouldn't even use a time frame under 300 seconds to compare lineups with Claw or anything that procs something besides a DD. And definitely try a few different time frames like 200, 300, 400 and see what the numbers and counts are doing. It's also a good idea to parse yourself in game at least once and compare your actual spell counts to what the app is saying. Then see if you can adjust the GCD Override value so that the app gives the same numbers. If I ever get back to enchanter DoTs I'll probably have a mode that works by spell order instead of multibind. It could be something you could turn on/off I suppose. I don't know. I might just put some things on hold and go back and solve some of these issues with needing to specify timeframes, etc. There's some things I could automate to make the app simpler for everyone to use.
Indeed, though I was the only one to notice. I only pointed out that the weave chaotic->servant->spear->spear has less 110 spears than the weave spear->chaotic->servant->spear, and that thats why you would be losing dps overall in that 20 sec time frame. You then screenshotted a comparison and tried to say they would have the same amount of 110 spear casts. Upon looking closer though, we notice you switched up your weave to servant->spear->spear->chaotic and then ran it for 120 sec. You are now known as Slippery Sancus.
Tbh I can't tell if you're kidding or not, but just to clarify I wrote a paragraph about RS -> Spear -> Spear -> Chaotic and a different paragraph about Chaotic -> RS -> Spear -> Spear. I said Spear -> Chaotic -> RS -> Spear was worse than RS -> Spear -> Spear -> Chaotic because you're using the synergy proc on a level 105 spear instead of 110. That's what you quoted when you said "No, its not costing dps because in exchange you are getting off more 110 spears." I don't think you were the only one to notice, you were probably the only one to not notice that I pretty clearly discussed two different types of lineups in that post. It's only sneaky if you don't read the post...
It is has been decided. When I want mage info, I will now go to mmats instead of Sancus. Cause mmats says so. And that is the bottom line.
Dude what? Look at your first friggin post in the thread. You advocate chaotic->servant->spear->spear. Your followup posts also advocate it. Also the synergy proc being used on 105 spear doesnt matter if you are getting off more 110 spears.
I don't know why I'm still trying. But this is the paragraph from which you quoted: See how I list two lineups there, neither of which are Chaotic -> RS -> Spear -> Spear? My whole point in that paragraph is you get the same number of 110 Spears and you can use the synergy proc on the 110 Spear with RS -> 110 Spear -> 105 Spear -> Chaotic.
I am fairly certain at this point Sancus could be reported as spam for repeating the same things over and over... I am unsure what is being lost in translation but the answers are there to be found. 20 second parses have NEVER been a legit way to test this game period. Does not matter what type of content you are doing, you post a 20 second parse and get laughed out of the room because at that time frame there are so many variables to factor in it is just dumb. The web app is not perfect and will never be perfect, it is more of a guideline than anything else to get you on the right track. It has most of the fancy numbers and things like that, but the actual playing out will lack based on a number of variables. Did your pets decide to afk for 20 seconds? Did you get a full resist on your Spear? Did Theft drop off your swarms? Do you have 2 mages and lose 1 synergy proc because you didn't cast a DD quick enough? Are you simply bad at moving your swarms to a new target? This thread is incredibly redundant and serves little purpose. There is not a single area in this game where 20 seconds will be the game changer. If it comes down to that, you are doing something wrong plain and simple. I wuld venture a guess that all of this parsing was done by actually doing it and not just reading a web app, back in Beta when all of the mages were actually parsing. Good Mages do not just do things because they like to play inefficiently, generally there is reasoning and logic behind decisions and not just 'the web app said so'.
I don't really see the point in trying to focus on exactly 20s fights. That's not really realistic. And, as was already pointed out, kizant's tool isn't going to properly account of Chaotic procs on that short of a duration or the fact that servants can be redirected into the next fight. Heck, depending on the burn/adps situation, there's probably a strong argument for leading with rain for a 20s fight.
I guess my question is... Does it really matter if it takes you 20 seconds to kill a mob, or 21 seconds? I mean if life is such that your biggest worry is decreasing mob kill time from 21 seconds to 20, then more power to you. But for the other 99.999% I just don't think we give a rat's behind...
