[MAG] BP suggestions

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Sirene_Fippy, Jan 14, 2017.

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  1. Vizier Augur

    +aggro mask clicky sounds perfect!
    fransisco likes this.
  2. IblisTheMage Augur

    ...with the risk of going into proces facilitation mode... recap v. 0.1.

    In this thread, we discussed what mages desire the most for their class, initiated by the question related to the BP. A number of aspects emerged, centered on three overall topics, listed in random order: Mage DPS (nuke or pet based), Pet Aggro Increase, Swarm Pet Survivability, all in the context of ideation for the next expansion.

    I will go out on a limb and speculate that Mage DPS and swarm pet survivability would cater more to the raiding mage, while pet aggro increase would cater more to the group mage.

    The most pervasive dev feedback was that at the moment of communication, the playing field could be open, with the following two limitations: no increase would be percentage-based, and damage increase would not be in the 'millions' that people where asking for.

    Writing from memmory here, so might have missed something.
  3. fransisco Augur

    even if the basic idea of a dps click stays on the bp, can it not be a pet proc. We have several pet proc abilities now - dicho and virulent talon, shielding buff proc, and normal pet spell proc.
    Adding the bp just clogs things more. You can only proc once a swing, adding more potential procs at the same time isn't helping.
  4. Brohg Augur


    This is not true, or if it is for pets that's a bug because it's not for players and not supposed to be for pets. Checked it?
  5. fransisco Augur

    It certainly used to be true. Has it been changed?
  6. Piemastaj Augur

    Not really sure what happens, but at least on raids pet procs do seem to conflict or have huge issues.

    You will have a 600% proc rate mod proc (Virulent Talon) not eat through 40 counters in a 10 minute fight.

    Pet melee is incredibly buggy and has been for a few years now. But, procs are really hit or miss on raid events. During groups it appears to be no issues, but with raids its incredibly bad.
  7. Brohg Augur

    That's directly related to the issue where they just don't swing, though, right? That's not a proc thing
  8. Sancus Augur

    It seems to get worse with more procs, but it's very difficult to nail down. Pets have the most procs running during burns, and they also skip swings more often during burns than any other time. However, it's difficult to say whether that's caused by procs, the general strain caused by an entire raid force burning, or something else entirely. My personal bet is on the second, but I can't say for sure.
  9. fransisco Augur

    Either way, putting the damage into something that isn't a proc means the mage is more likely to benefit from the ability on a raid.
  10. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    461 is supposed to be post crit, NOT pre-crit like it is doing.

    What if 462 (also post crit) was done so it was X% of the spell when it crits (appropriate rank used)? So for general use it would be about the same but might miss on short-term crit multiplier buffs from outside buffs. It does make the focus "scalar" where it was percent before. (And someone said it might not stack with type3s... which would make it a non-starter too)

    As for the click... I see procs aren't happy for various reasons. What if it was a very short duration spell (1 tick + phantom tick) that doomed a short DoT. So it wouldn't rely on pet swings... but would give the damage. (a thought to keep it pet based)
  11. Aelen Augur


    461 is what the Necromancer Lingering Death changes used.

    The fact that it does crit is vital to why it even works for what it's being used for. Redistributing those old ticks in a fashion that isn't a massive nerf.

    It's concerning that you don't consider 461 to be something that's supposed to crit, as one of the only places it's being used absolutely relies on it.
  12. Sancus Augur

    Is there a reason the focus can't crit? SPA 413, which is what foci have used since CotF, is applied pre-crit (it's actually applied directly to base damage), so I don't see why we couldn't use another SPA that's applied pre-crit like SPA 302.

    If you don't want the focus to crit for whatever reason, how about using the new SPA 507? It appears to work how you're saying SPA 461 should work, in that it's applied post crit. It's still scalar, so it would at least scale with different spell ranks and SPA 413. I'd much rather a focus that benefited from critical chance (again, SPA 302 would work well).

    SPA 462 would work and doesn't have stacking issues with Type 3's (that'd be SPA 303 which does crit), I'm just not sure why it would be used given better available options.

    I think that would work well if we're keeping the click pet based and damage based.

    Edit: I take that back, if it applied a DoT it would further exacerbate the debuff slot issues that mobs have and it would probably get banned on raids. Procs are bad but DoTs are also bad, adding damage to spells is better.
  13. Ibadan Kun'Tirel Augur

    I would also say not a DOT due to previously mentioned spell slot issues.

    What about a slightly improved pet aura similar to arcane distillect or something... Or... Summons a pair of pet weps better than those from cauldron... Or... Increase trigger rate on chaotitc fire line... Or... Shrug, make it work like virulent talon does now with less procs higher damage... (Though our dichotomic kinda combines omens of war style robe click and that idea, so, maybe not)... or, yeah, generic spell dmg increase, but of course would prefer pre crit but yeah I know you are trying to stray away from that... Our dps has been kind of stagnant for a while since the rain nerf and corresponding addition of chaotic fire...
  14. Cicelee Augur

    So I agree that the click should be pet related. It seems as though the devs want a flat damage given to the pet, so they can control how much damage the click does. That is fair and reasonable.

    How about a click that summons a pet? Kind of like a Remorseless Servant, but not exactly like that. Give it an insane amount of hit points so that it will not die to AOE, mob melee damage, etc. Allow it to last maybe 3-4 ticks, so about 18-24 seconds. And have it do whatever damage per swing you want it to do.

    This allows a fixed amount of damage. It is "pet"-ish. And it provides a large amount of damage in a short period of time from a pet. Not sure if code allows this, but we can summon a pet with spells, AA, clicks of a summoned weapon, etc etc...
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  15. fransisco Augur

    I like the ideas of BPs being equally useful to raid and group members.
    I'm concerned a pet damage ability would be wasted on raiding pets, since sometimes, pets just don't attack much on raids (due to known bug).
    If this was changed, I like the idea of summoning a pet with the click. Perhaps another use of host of elements?
  16. Tucoh Augur

    They should make the BP click temporarily fix the bug with pets attacking in raids :D
    Sancus and fransisco like this.
  17. Sancus Augur

    So... SPA 302 Spear of Molten Arcronite focus? :p
  18. kizant Augur

    You can copy wizards next expansion!
  19. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    it would be a swarm pet. (If I go with this...)

    well, I think this could be mitigated if the requirements were less restrictive and if it had less counters but did more per counter. I could be wrong, but it sounds like the pets don't swing in those pauses. So counters would not be wasted, we simply have to be sure that the counters get used before the duration expires, then all the expected damage is done. Even if its slower than y'all desire due to the issue (andI'm sure it was a joke, but I can't fix the issue! that's for code! I'm a lowly designer.)

    tis a posibility :)
    IblisTheMage, fransisco and Sancus like this.
  20. Sancus Augur

    You're correct; they don't swing so a low number of higher damage counters would work in theory. A swarm pet would also work.

    Also, *cough* https://dgcissuetracker.com/browse/EQ-640 *cough*
    I think that would be by far the overall best focus. Everyone uses Spear, and we're a DPS class so it fits. It also avoids the issues that the RS extension has in terms of survivability and such.
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