[MAG] BP suggestions

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Sirene_Fippy, Jan 14, 2017.

  1. IblisTheMage Augur

  2. Brohg Augur


    Magician spears 3.5. It's wizard ethereals that are the slower 3.75.
    Sancus and IblisTheMage like this.
  3. IblisTheMage Augur



    Azzurri likes this.
  4. Sancus Augur

    I've been playing my wizard too much :p
  5. IblisTheMage Augur

    and suddenly Spear looks a helluva lot better :). (Also found an error in my model).

    OK, ok, I will revise my cast sequence. But only because you all told me so a thousand times AND I found evidence in the model, after you helped me built it.

    #betterlatethannever #Manystillbeatsspeasnanananana
  6. Sirene_Fippy Augur

    Hey guys, I am a bad mage so keep that in mind. I see some of you asking about RS pet survival and that kind of thing. What do you think about this idea?

    A clicky that is a Rathe's Strength type aura (aura around your pet that affects other pets) with a big pet HP buff or a big pet mitigation buff? Or a pet DPS buff? It could be limited in duration like CoP clickies.
  7. Sancus Augur

    The main issue we currently run into with auras is that pets can only have one aura, just like players. You can test this currently - a pet cannot run both run Theft of Essence and Rathe's Strength at the same time (but can have both buffs if you have two pets, each running one of the auras).

    If that issue could be rectified, then I think there's a lot of potential for pet auras. Something that maybe adds an all skill damage modifier would be very effective and useful. The devs would just have to be alright with an all skills damage modifier as opposed to a proc.

    I'm not sure RS survivability can really be addressed by a short duration robe click, though. At least in EoK, most of the AEs and such that they have issues with are present for the entire duration of events. I certainly would love a click that increases their HP (along with damage), but I think that would be separate from really addressing them dying (which is more due to a general stagnation of their HP).
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  8. Cicelee Augur

    I have Arcane Distillect up as my aura in my aura window, and I see Theft of Essence icon on my pet. When I click RS I see both auras show up on RS.

    Are you saying the game only looks at one of the two auras and uses it? I don't have math behind me, just the eye test... but I do feel they use both of those auras. I know RS is using Arcane Distillect because I see the increased in max hit from it with and without. And when Theft of Essence procs on my pet, I swear that RS can last a little bit longer. And I swear I see more max hits than I do without...
  9. Sancus Augur

    I said nothing about Arcane Distillect. Arcane Distillect is an aura that centers on you, and therefore functions differently that Rathe's Strength.
  10. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    click for increased spell damage is a possibility, but
    Pet ideas overall are the best "fit" since Mages are a pet class. Zeal of the Elements XXVIV should be consistent on procs with the huge proc rate it is given. It's the skills it is limited to that limit it.
    If you like the idea of defensive help for the pet, would some sort of cascading rune (rune casts another when dropped until the amount is reached) be interesting? Or defensive proc rune (with limit use)? Would Defensive help for the pet even be that useful?

    As for "noticeable," the BP's are not meant to be a large effect. 2m is not at all likely to be the new target for damage. I would doubt even double the current amount (240k) but at this time I don't know the eventual target. If the answer is "I don't care then if it's not 'significant'" then I'll be happy to take the easy path and upgrade current stuff.
  11. Piemastaj Augur

    The issue with a cascading buff is, we currently have an AA called 'Companion's Blessing' that does not Cascade once it hits the mark.

    For example it has like a 1k DMG on it, once the pet takes the 1k DMG the buff gets removed entirely and does not continue to proc into the next portion of the ability. Really bad because that buff is also a Heal over Time which we lose out on when the pet is tanking mobs in current content.

    The issue with procs is, we already have a hugely modded AA called Virulent Talon that does not proc frequently enough (like some events it will not proc the full amount for 10 minutes). I am unsure what it is with raids, but pets just simply do not like to function well in them and their ability to proc suffers even more.

    I think an extra Garg pet every 10 minutes would be better then a defensive proc for our pets that probably will not proc nearly enough.

    Any thoughts to giving us a Damage increase to Of Many or Spear and having Dzarn add in the 3 second worn focus as an AA?
    Sancus likes this.
  12. Sancus Augur

    The issue with pet based damage procs, regardless of proc rate, is that our main pets are flat out broken on burns in raids (they miss swings all the time, but especially during burns). Having a huge proc rate is great unless a pet spends multiple seconds between each swing not attacking. Since the main benefit of proc based robes (as opposed to our SoD robe click) is that they stack with Frenzied Burnout, they're generally used on burns, and with how slowly pets swing they really aren't ideal.

    I wish I could give you more concrete numbers on pet swing rate but it varies wildly, and testing it is difficult because it only occurs during raids. That said, Piemastaj has sent a wealth of data (and I have sent some my self) in the past regarding the issue, and the concerns have fallen on deaf ears.

    Assuming the issue continues to go unadressed, spell boosts are by far a more consistent way to provide damage.

    If we're only looking at less than 480k damage total from the click, then I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with a rune click since we still would have prior robe clicks available. In general I'd want something that's usable in raids/groups/solo, which damage boosts generally are. That said, an "oh ****" type of rune click even for a relatively small amount might be neat and would probably be more useful than <480k damage.

    Edit: I share Pie's concerns about it being broken like Companion's Blessing, but I believe there is a Necro cascading rune spell that does work properly for pets?

    If this is the case, I'd prefer something like mana regen (or a rune proc edit: or an RS click would be great), since anything damage based will go completely unnoticed if it's <480k. Worst case if we're only looking for damage we can use previous expansions' clicks instead.
  13. IblisTheMage Augur

    Lets get the co-creation ball rolling! :).

    Aggro robe (preferred)
    My dream robe would be one that gave:
    1) a permanent aggro enhancer (like the effect that can be found on some masks, 25ish percent), and
    2) a clickie that would allow the pet to AE-aggro (e.g. on a bad pull), and perhaps even with a Stance-type rune on top, that would give it the ability to survive for say 10-20 secs, until things come under control.

    Pro
    * Mage pets have a harder time maintaining aggro these days, since our DPS has grown, this would fix this
    * The permanent aggro enhancer would not be something that is unobtainable today (buy aggro mask in /bazar)
    Con
    * not everyone wants the pet to generate more aggro all the time. But I do :).
    * Also, the AE-aggro is war/sk/pal ability, so there is a central design decision here in whether this is the direction for the game

    Cost/barrier (guesswork)
    * permanent aggro effect is easy to implement, just take it from a mask 1-1
    * AE-aggro should be adapted from a tank class, with proper down scaling, balancing, etc.

    Pet Swarm /swarm support robe
    Focus: enhances all RS pets in the vecinity with an AC and resist buf OR a mage pet proc that heals/runes surounding swarm pets
    Clickie: Summon Mutinous Servant (cooldown 5 min, does not stack with spell)

    Pro
    * Balance neutral, in the way that it will not add DPS to mages that are not available already
    * Will give Mutinous Servant a comeback

    Con
    * None that I can think of

    Cost/barrier (guesswork)
    * Apparently, the permanent effect would be a new Aura, RS pet only OR a new proc
    * the Mutinous Servant part should be an easy implementation



    Robe of Elemental Bleats
    Focus: decreases the cooldown on mod rods/shards (all types above level 100) summoned by the mage with 1 min
    Clickable: summon Wand of Dark modulation rnk 1-3 depending on robe, for no mana cost

    Pro
    * Will make mages more desirable on raids

    Con
    * Will get me lynched
    * Might be too OP with regards to mana regen

    Cost/barrier (guesswork)
    * Focus: will need to make new versions of mod rods and AA/spells with a shorter re-click
    * clicke: should be straight forward implementation of the spell
    * Also, a secondary effect (Illusion: Goat, self) should be added to the clickie

    Combinations/alternatives
    The permanent aggro effect combined with Mutinous Servant would be a great robe for me, and I speculate it would be easy to implement.

    The Robe of Elemental Bleats is not entirely serious, and by far the least desirable of the three, but it would still be a huge improvement over the current robes.


    Current effect
    I don't use the current robe clickie (Elemental Docility) on my mage, so a continuation of the current line would not have a benefit for me. The reason that I don't use it is that I perceive the effect as irrelevant. It has a dps of 266, (160.000 damage every 10 min), which is not worth the nuisance of thinking on it.

    Also, I think the name (Docility) is less than ideal. A docile pet? Good for puppies, less so for my elemental bad-*** monster-basher. Change it to Unruly Underling or something :)
  14. Vizier Augur

    I will vote yes on the +pet aggro effect. I would much rather have this than any minor DPS or Rune effect.
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  15. fransisco Augur

    I would love either pet agro or a new swarm pet summoning.
    We are conjurers, yet even bards produce more swarm pets over time.
  16. Piemastaj Augur

    Quality over quantity every time.... I'm sure those bards would trade their swarms for ours if they could.
  17. Sancus Augur

    Having the focus increase pet aggro is a bad idea IMO. First, I'm doubtful that it's possible to easily modify your pet's aggro via a focus that you're wearing, which is very different than a pet wearing a focus. Even if it was, while it would be helpful when solo, it would be useless in any situation when you're not pet tanking (groups/raids, which make up a huge part of the game). Unfortunately we all are going to have to wear the robe for the entirety of the next expansion, so my hope is the focus would be something as universally applicable as possible. I don't really want to swap back to my EoK robe any time I'm not pet tanking.

    For the click, if they're willing to give our pets AE aggro it could be an interesting idea. My main concern is that the aggro generation would be too low to be useful in more than a few niche scenarios. It also shares the same issue as the focus in that it is only useful when pet tanking (and actually actively detrimental to use elsewhere), but at least we have the option of using old robe clicks without having to actually wear old robes. Personally, I'd prefer to see that as an AA and have something else for a BP click, but I'm more open to that than the focus.

    As an aside, I think a summoned aggro mask would be pretty neat as a spell, though unfortunately Aristo doesn't take suggestions :oops:

    I like the idea of a boost to swarm pets in the vicinity, but it would likely have to function as an aura like Sirene described meaning it's likely better suited as a clicky. Unfortunately the benefit would probably scale to some extent, which Ngreth doesn't like. I would love a short-ish duration defensive boost/all skills damage modifier aura for swarm pets, though :(

    As far as Summon Mutinous Servant, not really sure why it would be on a BP click if it doesn't stack with the spell. Seems pretty useless since you could just cast the spell... If it summoned an actual RS pet or some sort of additional swarm pet that would be much better.
  18. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    That sounds to me more like an issue that it's doing multiple things... it is was only a rune... then you'dont "loose" the effect of the Dot Heal becuase it isn't there.
    I dislike making swarm pets, but if you want one that does the "appropriate" amount of damage if it lives long enough, then I can go that way. Just because they are a PITA to make doesn't mean I won't do them!

    Remember folks. All click effects must offer a concrete scale effect. Nothing that scales with level, conditions, etc. It needs to do X amount of healing, damage, protection, or whatever. So "percentage" hate is a no go. A Set amount of hate is doable... but would that suffice?

    That said, hate increase as the FOCUS is theoretically doable (assuming we have the ability)... but, from the warrior post... something you can't turn off sounds like a bad idea (one of there click wishes (perhaps not seriously... but...) was kill pet with taunt on... I do reject the idea, but I can see why tanks hate taunting pets)
  19. fransisco Augur

    Can the hate focus be only for pets and not the caster?
    Cause that would be $$$$
  20. IblisTheMage Augur


    That would be very meh for me, swarm pet survivability I see as being a boon primarily to the raiding mages. Swarm pets tend to survive quite well in group settings.

    It would not scale dps, only increase swarm pet survivability. My interpretation of Ngreth's criteria is that the game developers want to avoid stuff that scales dps, tanking, healing. By increasing survivability of swarm pets, there is no addition of DPS, only helping that the DPS manifested is being utilized until the duration wears of. It would be great if Ngreth could indicate if I am in the right direction with this interpretation.


    [/quote]

    I made a mistake in my text above. I meant Summon Minion, identical to the Summon Mutinous Minion item effect, basically turning the robe into something similar to a:

    Summoned: Exigent Minion XXI II

    Share


    MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE TEMPORARY
    EXPENDABLE Charges: 1
    Effect: Summon Minion II (Any Slot, Casting Time: 0.5) at Level 100
    Recast Delay: 300 seconds, Recast Type: 30
    WT: 0.1 Size: SMALL
    Class: MAG
    Race: HUM ERU HIE DEF GNM DRK
    Item Lore:
    Contains the essence of an exigent minion
    Item Type:
    Misc
    Stackable:
    No
    Potion Belt:
    Yes
    Lucy Entry By:
    Vaako - D`Pikey
    Source:
    Live
    Updated:
    Fri Dec 9th, 2016


    ...but with unlimited charges, still with 300 sec recast, and sharing the timer with Summoned: Exigent Minion XXIII

    The advantages would be:
    * mana
    * release spell slot
    * convert a 3 action sequence into a 1 action sequence (<cast summon mutinous minion -> put in bags -> click> into <click robe>)

    Balance-wise it does not allow mages to do something that they cannot do today, but it makes life easier, "lowering the transaction cost", and making an existing spell a lot more useful for groupers.

    With regards to game design, it is possible to make it in different strengths (rnk 2 for group robe, rnk 3 for raid robe), and it is easy to continue the line in a new expansion.

Share This Page