Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Tappin, Oct 30, 2018.

  1. Teylana Elder

    Chase loot isn't P2W. Neither are prize packs or heroic characters, or XP pots. They give an advantage, sure, but they don't give you the ability to automatically climb to the top of the heap with just good old fashioned cash. There's still a lot of work that you have to put in to get there. Heroic characters still need a LOT of work. XP pots don't save you from the grind, etc.

    This time it's different. Using only cash and absolutely NO WORK, you could max out your luck in just a few minutes. That is the very definition of Pay-2-Win. You said it yourself;

    I'm all for game companies making profit. I enjoy this game and I want Everquest (and, by extension, Daybreak) around for a long time. But this isn't the way to do it. It's unethical and not something that I'm willing to quietly get behind.
  2. Aurastrider Augur

    P2W means any advantage obtained via spending real money but there are different degrees of the system. The examples I gave are all based off of the P2W methodology. The very fact that there are krono's in this game which cost significantly more than a standard sub but do the same thing supports this. Someone needs gear but cant obtain it themselves they purchase a krono, sell it for plat and upgrade their gear. This was mostly aimed on live servers towards new and returning players until COTF when they released chase loot to try and hook vets into the system. By default chase loot feeds the krono beast which is directly aimed to support a p2w method.

    "This time it's different" is rather subjective on your part and mostly because I am going to assume this will be the first time you might actually take part in a P2W system even though it has been here for nearly two decades. If anything this is less of a P2W model than prize packs/LDON items that gave some of the best buffs for their slot. How many top end tanks threw countless dollars trying to obtain the war bear mount just for those couple extra AC? This was the case until TBM when both the progression and premium mount buffs became better than the war bear. Sure we got 5 free packs a month but the odds of snagging one of the ultra rares off of those packs was probably worse than trying to obtain chase loot.

    EQ does not have a true P2W feature meaning the only way to obtain power is via throwing real money at the game unless you consider expansion and sub purchases p2w which I personally dont. You have two options available to you that will cost you zero money and a third that will cost you your free DBG cash. The last P2W option is just that an option. If you don't like this option start farming your plat now, save your free DBG cash and let your loyalty tokens build up.
  3. Xianzu_Monk_Tunare Augur

    You are missing the whole point of what I said. You don't see the other crits and the parsed does not pick up and record the damage. 10 minutes is a meaningless period of time for any parse involving RNG. You need 8-10 hours to get anything meaningful. I trust Beimeith's statement that there is a lot more being missed that is not being counted than what you are calculating, because that would be the same as what some people asked in his thread.
  4. Tappin Augur

    If you don’t like the way the parse works, then go write your own code. If it’s not being properly logged, then go ask DBG to fix the way things are logged. There’s no reason what so ever to run an 8 to 10 hour parse, it’s NOT representative of any real game play.

    We won’t really know Luck’s real impact until the new expansion goes live. However, it doesn’t appear thar DBG target audience is the average Joe, so most can just ignore it with little impact.
  5. kizant Augur

    You're an idiot.
    Brohg and Sancus like this.
  6. Daedly Augur

    Who is average Joe and what about Luck makes it appear any different for Joe? There are a lot of things that can probably be ignored in game.

    Does Luck offer improvements to a character? Yes
    Is getting the stat required to play the game? No

    To say that the stat was made for this or that type of player is ridiculous.
  7. Sancus Augur

    With respect, you have no idea what you're talking about. The issues gamparse has do not involve its ability to record the damage from lucky strikes. The syntax for the damage value itself (e.g. "Sancus hit mob1 for 100000 points of non-melee damage.") is unchanged. It's ability to accurately report crit rate is affected, because the crit message has a new syntax (e.g. "You deliver a lucky critical blast! (100000)" vs "You deliver a critical blast! (100000)").

    However, anyone using Gamparse's search function or with basic computer skills can take the output from a log file and figure out the number of hits, number of normal crits, and number of lucky crits. They can also easily determine the values of those hits. I did all of my work in Excel, unhampered by the limitations of any parsing programs or new syntax.

    As far as what it actually does, the devs have already stated, in terms of damage, it modifies critical damage, not critical chance. My data corroborated that on the first day of beta (and yes, I did hours of parsing). I then ran more multi-hour parses to determine the range of values. It so happens that it varies from 10% crit damage to 15% crit damage. That's for both melee and spells. The frequency is 75% and 67% respectively. From there, anyone with a basic understanding of damage calculations can derive an overall DPS increase. For Mages adding 12.5% crit damage is approximately a 1.3% DPS increase, and that increase 67% of the time yields a 0.87% overall increase in damage. It's not exactly rocket science.

    Ngreth has stated the frequency and potency are currently tuned higher than they will be on launch. He has also stated that luck is currently capped at 10 on beta. As such, we don't know what the final value will be. That has nothing to do with parser programs or the inadequate duration of parses, though. We're perfectly well equipped to figure out what is currently happening.
    Beimeith and Brohg like this.
  8. Zanarnar Augur

    Does this mean that no group gear will have luck, or that all group gear is becoming no-drop next xpac, or that any gear CAN have luck, but if it happens to have that stat the piece becomes NODROP instead of ATTUNABLE?

    The gist of what I'm getting from this thread is it won't do much, is only attainable by raiders, and is expensive to upgrade. It honestly seems like a lot of work into this that could be better spent on additional zones, raids, events, or plain ol bug fixing... but thats just me.
  9. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    Tier 1 group gear is atunable, as usual, and has no luck.
    Tier 2 group gear is no-trade, as usual, and had luck
    Tier TS (tradeskill) group gear is no-trade, (Handled with a tradable container that needs a no-drop item to complete) has luck
    All raid gear has luck and is no-trade.
  10. hellohello123 Lorekeeper

    How are you gonna end the game? You could have an item that is +1000 to everything and have it drop from one static group mob. That way every player in the game will camp that one mob and train each other, and cause mayhem to try to get that item, and people like that kind of conflict and drama so they will praise the game for being exciting.

    Make it only drop on 1 in every 10000000 ph's so everyone is desperate for it but it hardly ever drops and people start losing their minds. Then make it so you can buy a private instance of that dungeon with station cash but it is $1000 a pop. But even when you make your own instance, it is still only a 1 in 100000000 chance to drop and if you camp, the instance is gone forever and you have to buy it again the next day, or camp it 24/7.

    Kids will die from DVT and starvation and stuff trying to get this item, it will make international news, good free advertising, make the game peak before it finally ends. And then when everyone quits, the game will have made good money in the last year.

    And one last item... 10 grand on the shop, buys you a GM flag so you can type /kill on any raid mob and it dies instantly. Let people loot everything they want. Also lie to people to say that the game will be shut down and all characters backed up so people can continue offline if they back the offline package at $100. Thousands of people will buy it to play EQ into the future, and then you just don't bother making it and liquid the company so nobody can sue you for the money.
  11. svann Augur

    IMO that guild should not allow bidding for luck combines unless there are no bids for gear going direct to slot. Guilds can make any rule they want and that makes sense. And the problem is not just that new guildies will have to wait longer before they get gear, but also because it would make your total raid force weaker if you make some people keep wearing last years gear just so the top dkp holder can get +1 luck.
    Corwyhn Lionheart and Pirlo like this.
  12. BadPallyGuildLeader Augur

    So, I want to add a perfect diamond times 3 to my breastplate? :D And that will add health and magic damage...

    Oh wait...wrong game again. Dang.
  13. Beggly Augur

    Personally, I don't think this will ever effect me. I doubt if I will live long enough to get to this stat, and even if I do, it will be nerfed all to heck and back by then. Right now I'm still working on stuff pre-House of Thule. Sigh.
  14. Gialana Augur

    The information on Luck says it will increase the amount of coin in your split. Does this mean that if you get a Luck roll and your group mates don't that you'll get a larger share of the coin the mob drops and your group mates will get a smaller share? Or does it mean that your group mates will get the same amount of coin as they normally would but magically more coin is created when you receive your split?
  15. Zamiam Augur

    hopefully it means you do a more thorough search of the corpse and find a hidden coin purse with a few extra coins that you receive with your new Luck skill .. cause it would seem unfair for those with no luck to loose out on pp just cause they had no luck .. I mean in R/L if i didnt have bad luck id have no luck at all why would i want my fantasy game to imitate my R/L .. i get enough of that in Life lol
  16. Riou EQResource

    Think only your master looter rolls for bonus, then its split normally
  17. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    The split is done first, thus everyone gets their normal "deserved" share. Then, as each person gets their split, each person gets their own roll and magical coin is created from thin air if they win their roll.
  18. Zamiam Augur

    <rant on>if you can create magical coin from thin air :) why cant you use your magical powers to create a stable server, or better items in the basic, collectors or premium expansions ..:mad: <rant off>>
    Seriously I would like to know why time was spent on another stat vs either fixing stuff that needs fixin or more zones , features for the now 25th expansion .
    and I know this might be a bit too soon but what are your (dev's) ideas going forward with anniversary's and further expansions .. inquiring minds would like to know if I/we want to spend anymore R/L cash on this game .
    dont get me wrong I love this game and I love that you devs try to please as many of us as you can but it just seems like the effort is not there anymore..

    would it of killed you to maybe put in a nimbus keyring instead of the LUCK stat ? or a gate keyring .. I know your time and resources are limited is why im asking who the heck thought it would be a good idea to add Luck stat..
    Caell likes this.
  19. Sancus Augur

    Implementation aside, I find it pretty laughable that a nimbus keyring would be considered a better feature than a new stat...
  20. Sheex Goodnight, Springton. There will be no encores.

    If we’re floating ideas for dumb new keyrings, my vote would be teleportation clicky items. Betweeen all the ones from the cultural marketplace crap and then in game ones, there’s a lot.

    Plus it would be delicious for Druid/wizard tears. Maybe their version could have some slight improvement vs everyone else.
    Caell and Sancus like this.