Lord Nagafen and Lady Vox level 52 or lower requirement

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Atomos, Jul 22, 2021.

  1. Tweakfour17 Augur

    OW targets do have MOTM, in fact its possible to get a DZ w/o MOTM but OW to still have it since when the expansion unlocks that drops MOTM happens, DZs get that bonus immediately but the OW mobs need to be killed 1 last time (or server bounce) to respawn w/o it.

    It's part of the quirky unique charm of EQ. Homogenizing all the mechanics we don't like is bad for the game even if you don't see that.
  2. Atomos Augur

    I already did, gave multiple reasons, but you don't care about them. Not my fault you have tunnel vision.

    Part of the quirky unique charm you for some reason don't choose to participate in. Want to tell everyone why that is?

    I didn't think OW targets had MOTM for some reason, but I just checked Vox and she does. That's good. Maybe OW targets didn't originally have it. They definitely should.

    Anyone got a video of the lowest group of people they can find killing MOTM Vox/Naggy?
  3. Tweakfour17 Augur

    As has been mentioned a bunch in this thread, betweem DZ and the loots not being that great (see your quote a few posts back saying they both dropped garbage) there is no reason to do it. On live people apparently keep all old OW raid targets down, but on TLP as they become past era content, no one cares. Stick around on your server and unless someone is farming something specific you're gonna see more and more OW raid bosses just left up because they aren't worth the effort.
    They always did since motm was invented.
  4. Atomos Augur

    Specifically what I said is Naggy and Vox dropped Yael loot. Yael doesn't really drop anything special himself (no idea why he's on random loot with Vox/Naggy). Not that their loot is garbage.

    This isn't about OW targets and whether they are killed or not - they are. This is about 2 specific OW targets not being killed because of an outdated mechanic that was only seen as useful ONCE during the game's 22 year life. Seen so obsolete that it was never used again.

    You can't argue both that the loot is bad and that there's no reason to remove the restriction. The loot being bad just makes the restriction look even more pointless. Really just about every one of your reasons is in support of removing it, it's pretty awesome.
  5. Tweakfour17 Augur

    "Today my guild killed Vox, Naggy and Yael, Vox and Naggy both dropped pretty much the exact same garbage Yael loot"
    So you DID in fact use the adjective "garbage" when describing the Vox/Naggy loot.
    Why can't you argue the loot is bad and there is no reason to remove the restriction. The loot is bad so who cares, also the loot/mob is available in DZ at your leisure with no dev intervention required. The main point isn't that the mechanic is bad, it is, its just that its been bad for 22 years and there is no point to change it. Oh you get an extra dragon for 1 month and then they will just say up regardless. Its pointless.
  6. Atomos Augur

    Vox and Naggy dropped Yael loot. Yael loot is what's garbage.

    I just said why you can't argue that. Do you people even read this stuff or are you just addicted to forum arguing?

    What's more pointless, the change, or the amount of time you're spending arguing against it (and then giving great reasons as to why it should be changed anyway).

    Why are you not interested in getting level restrictions in place for other targets? Talendor, Gorenaire, Trakanon and Severilous are dragons and they don't have restrictions. Why not?

    Why not add it to non-dragon targets as well? Phinigel, Cazic-Thule, Innoruuk, Venril Sathir. Why not?
  7. Tweakfour17 Augur

    Your reason that you can't argue that the loot is bad and the change is pointless is because bad loot makes the restriction more pointless. The loot is bad because there is better loot levels beyond 50, the loot was good when it was in classic. Changing the restriction or not won't make the loot better or worse. The only reason to kill the dragons in OW is for extra loot to sell or for alts. If its for alts then level up some alts and go kill the bonus dragon in OW. Or use your DZs and get em every week w/o rolling more.

    No, I already said that some mobs banish, some DT, some AE, some spawn Adds. I have not been in favor of making all raids the same this entire thread. Also the amount of time we spend discussing it is irrelevant vs the amount of time it'd take to change it since (so far) no dev has bothered to comment on your request and to the best of my knowledge no one who has would be the one making the change or not.[/quote]
  8. Atomos Augur

    If the loot is bad beyond 50/Classic, why was the restriction added in the first place?
  9. Machen New Member

    So basically, you want the devs to put a bunch of time and work in to bring the servers into alignment with your vision, which ultimately will only benefit the one open world guild on each server. Got it.
  10. Atomos Augur

  11. Triconix Augur

    I seriously hope you're not being serious with that question. The answer(s) are glaringly obvious

    1. Less loot was available because of no DZs. The amount of times Nag/Vox were killed in a year on live between launch of classic and Kunark was less than the amount of times it is killed in a month or two on TLPs.
    2. A very small minority of the population were in the bleeding edge raid guilds so the gear was still valuable
    3. It helped keep some raid targets out of scope for high end guilds for lower guilds a chance at raiding and getting loot
    4. Toxic gatekeepers are bad for the game. It kept them out.

    The implementation wasn't meant to be restrictive. It was meant to allow more players to see more content.
  12. Atomos Augur

    lol, you answered the question as if it were implemented today, not during era.
    1. Less loot because of DZs wasn't a concept back then.
    2. The amount of people involved in the content doesn't make the gear suck more or less.
    3. The only relevant remark, if only it were true. Especially since #2 stated a very small minority was a part of these guilds. Making this change because of a tiny amount of the population? I don't buy it.
    4. Wasn't a thing during era.

    At least put forth some effort.
  13. Tweakfour17 Augur

    1. DZ weren't a concept back then, but less loot was meaning raid loot was better since there was way less of it.
    2. See 1.
    3. Literally quoted above by the devs
    4. Yes, yes it was.
    Please just stop.
  14. Atomos Augur

    I have no intention of stopping. Hope you're ready for that. And no one is forcing you to be a part of this conversation but yourself.

    Blocking others from stuff was not a thing back then, it wasn't. Competing for content? Sure. But just killing raid targets for the sake of preventing others from getting them? No. Some servers even had enforced rotations and didn't even compete.

    It wasn't about preventing high level guilds and opening up lower level guilds, it was that people were killing the dragons with a lot smaller numbers than the 100+ that people were used to and it hurt people's feefees, in particular a dev's. Willing to bet it was someone that hasn't been a part of the company in 20 years.
  15. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    There was plenty of guilds that got no chance at content based on what time zone/days they raided. Sure on some servers there was a rotation that was respected but it wasn't always easy to get on that list.

    Also I don't see how the fact that they didn't want naggy/vox to be killed by a couple of level 60's and instead be raid content for lower level players as something that has changed in the last 20 years. There is no reason to change it when anyone can kill them on a TLP server by getting a group together and hitting an AoC.
  16. Triconix Augur

    The more you speak, the more I question you actually played back then.
    Yes, you get it! You argument was the loot being labeled as bad. However, you're using modern interpretations as something classic. In classic aka 1999-2000, the loot was very much still good because overall gear in the game was less because... NO DZes! Oh my lord what a concept!

    Since there was less overall gear, Nag/Vox gear was still very much relevant for a large population that wasn't bleeding edge (aka the dirt casuals). So it was implemented to prohibit the toxic raid guilds from blocking the casual players from seeing more content. Please, try to keep up with this critical thinking. Let me continue on.
    ...I have no words. See above. Less gear available for the casuals meant they were using even worse than what Naggy/Vox provided. Therefore, the gear was still very good for a large part of the population in '00. If you don't understand how a flooded market of in era items quickly obsoletes previous era items, I'm not sure what to tell you. On live, the market wasn't flood like it is now on TLPs. Therefore the obsoleteness of the gear took longer.
    You don't have to buy facts, but that's your self imposed ignorance.
    Denial is strong. You cannot rationally state there were no toxic players in early EQ. You just cannot be that naïve, can you?
    You should take your own advice.
    Tweakfour17 likes this.
  17. Atomos Augur

    Oh there's plenty of reason to change it and you and others who have argued against it just keep giving more reasons XD Greatly appreciated, you're doing a better job of getting this changed than I am!
  18. Atomos Augur

    lmao, why are you under the impression that high level guilds weren't killing Naggy/Vox because they needed them? They had 1 week respawn timers, Classic itself lasted 13 months or ~52+ weeks. That's around 52 chances during Classic that Naggy could drop a Cloak of Flames. Let's not pretend that just 1 guild is the one that gets all the kills during era, that sure as hell wasn't true. So you've got what is probably like 15 Cloak of Flames on the server for a raid scene made up of hundreds.

    Then Kunark comes out, Naggy and Vox are dropping epic quest items, Cloak of Flames and Runed Bolster Belt is still one of the best items for haste in the game. Talendor and Gorenaire are clearly meant to be level 60 versions of Naggy/Vox, they even both drop the same epic quest items and still both drop Cloak of Flames and Runed Bolster Belt.

    No guild was killing Naggy/Vox to prevent others from getting the kills, they were killing them because they needed them. I'm sure people cried on the forums about not being able to compete with the guilds who were able to kill both Kunark and Classic dragons, and that's why the change was made, but it never should of been.

    It was bad design then, just like it was bad design they wanted us to intentionally train each other. It doesn't matter how old the concept is, or that no one has ever bothered to fix it, it matters whether the mechanic is stupid or not. And most importantly, it's not even performing it's original intended function.
  19. Machen New Member

    It absolutely 100% was on the server I played on.
  20. Atomos Augur

    No, it absolutely 100% wasn't, your guild just couldn't beat the competition. No one was trying to gatekeep you from anything, they were simply playing the game the way it was designed to be. Racing other guilds to content and out DPSing them with your main DPS group. The weekly respawn time of raid targets combined with the rarity of items did not support the amount of end-game players, gatekeeping couldn't even exist in the first place even if you wish it did.