Loot Pinata vs RMTers

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Surebuddy, May 29, 2021.

  1. Niskin Clockwork Arguer


    I did spend some time in the aqueducts, never saw any of those mobs. There was a room where a named was supposed to spawn, always had people in it so I didn't stick around. In the newbie yard we had Fippy and Djerr, neither marked rare. I may have briefly witnessed Prince Kliknik, and ran from Queen Kliknik once. Not sure if they are flagged as rare.

    I guess I should clarify and say that i haven't killed any rare mobs yet, or even fought them. So from that end of things, this unique ruleset has has not impacted me at all yet. I was pointing out that this kind of thing is more likely for a casual. People are hitting 50 within a few days and I'm running back to the vendor constantly because I forgot there was another backpack in the bank.

    I did see the Ghoul Messenger once, because somebody shouted that he was up and I realized I was in his path and moved. Moments later his level 27 red butt rolled on by. As a casual, these things can exist, it doesn't mean they will be anything other than another way for me to get killed this early into the launch.

    I actually lean towards your view that this will be a good server for causals, but I could be wrong and I'm not ready to make that call until much farther into the classic time period.
  2. ntellect Augur


    Well I have gear and that's making my tanking much easier than if I didn't have the gear.

    I dont have time and I don't buy Krono.

    Thus my statements stand true for how I play.
  3. Waring_McMarrin Augur


    I think you are confusing gear being required and gear helping by making content easier.
    Machen likes this.
  4. ntellect Augur


    I would own that
  5. Komodon Elder

    Yeah, here is the flaw with that counter line of thought claim once you make an actual effort to apply some real forward thinking, and examine such beyond it's surface appeal.

    If that huge glacial amount of an unseen player base you claim exists with no interest in raiding is going to stick around....what exactly is the long term and continued time investment hook keeping them all playing through that non raid content now once pretty much every raid drop gets farmed into low cost oblivion by the hardcores on a free trade server that isn't even bound by a box restriction?

    The love of the grinding exp or plat gameplay in itself? One that isn't offering gear upgrades as good as the ample amount of better and now much more easily accessible stuff that they are going to see constantly spammed in their face at every available turn in the game world?

    The random drops off named is fun and new concept, but in combination with a free trade of raid loots it does make the "what makes everquest different and well.. everquest" trade off on even the casual gameplay level of eliminating the typical focused "log in with a defined goal" progression playstyle that is a heck of a lot more common to see casuals (that again, actually stick around through multiple expansions) partaking in on these TLPs then some proposed "let's log on for some aimless/goalless gameplay experience!".

    Just because some vocal people on this board get too caught up on raging about some outlier camp examples doesn't mean every casual playstyle is somehow winning in all this just because they might now be able to see their effretti boots drop in some random exp grind of a latter zone. If you are hanging your hat on the idea that some huge casual player base will be sticking on Mischief long after the extremists farm up that bis loot at record levels, with no loot decay variable involved mind you....that sounds like a pretty shortsighted and crappy bet that essentially just ignores the flip side of the coin factor there.
  6. ntellect Augur

    Your argument is based on a bunch of unknowns that you are claiming as fact.

    What will be interesting to see is what will the playerbase do if Raiders stop raiding and thus no raid loot to get.

    While possible, I don't believe it will happen, but even if it does many people have played the game never seeing or using raid loot just fine.

    So I cant see that aspect being what reduces the playerbase after PoP. It's more about if someone starts in PoP where there ample people to group with at low levels
  7. Komodon Elder

    My argument is based on a firsthand perspective on actually sticking around on any of these TLPs for an extended period of time, and getting a first hand look at the overall approach mindset that is going into a meaningful % of this server's population makeup. What you see as "unknowns" I also see as simple inevitabilities with fairly predictable patterns to follow and then draw those conclusions from.

    On that note, before posting what I did and while reading through this thread's feedback, if i was to make a guess on the one guy who was offering up his early positive experience on the Mischief experience, and which who in a short while probably wouldn't be heard from here again until being among the first people asking about the next TLP when that starts being a real possibility thing again....it would of been you ;)
  8. Komodon Elder


    You aren't wrong, and that all pretty much does a solid surface level job of summing up a lot of the surrounding reality branch down problem in play with a server format that will unavoidably play out to eliminate the most fundamental core aspects that is realistically needed here to anchor far too many people (and keeps them coming back) into any maintained healthy server formula to *this* 20 year old mmo.

    I mean there is a reason the zergy guilds that will make up a large % of this server's population once the brand spanking new server to play on appeal plays itself out have defaulted to a gdkp loot system. There is a reason those guilds are being run by the select people they are, as opposed to the always expanding zerg gravitating more towards leadership structures that would actually offer a higher probability of avoiding the early lose interest flame out. From a purely long term retention standpoint....this variable in itself and seeing so many endless people at the top end pushing 100% of their chips in on a less time sink commitment rooted concept idea that places the pursuit of money/krono from casuals to the front of the "why I'm playing" priority chain is probably the *last* thing you'd ideally want to see happening in the grander scheme of things if player retention is going to be an important piece of the overall success puzzle for people.

    In the end the combination of a free trade and no box restriction TLP server can realistically only play out one way here. Since in essence it's really just the opposite end of spectrum with the same type of extreme player base driven flaw as trying to do a no instances server again. But hey, if people on the hardcore side really want to talk themselves into believing that there will still be enough milk worthy casual players to go around and who are going to be both willing and who actually *care* about it's loot enough to throw big amounts of krono into an over-farmed market by the time Velious swings into full farm gear, or casuals (with actual designs of making a home here) who want to talk themselves into believing that this server isn't just going to ultimately bring out and amplify the absolute worst in a lot of the same hardcore/cheating aspects they typically find to suck the fun out of previous servers....enjoy it while it's wishful thinking hope aspect is still there I guess.
  9. Gheed Augur

    Agreed and well said.
  10. KrakenReality Augur


    You wrote so so much and you could've just said, that you don't understand casual players.
  11. Niskin Clockwork Arguer


    You answered your own question. Casuals love getting things they normally couldn't get without having to spend an arm and a leg.

    Some of this has been discussed before, and with the exception of Mischief/Thornblade, Agnarr was probably the last TLP that interested casuals. That's how it was for me anyway. So you aren't wrong to be skeptical of the longevity of casuals on a TLP. The difference here is both the free-trade loot and the randomization. Gear casuals never had access to before will be out there to buy. Drops from camps they never could get before will be out there to buy without the premium of the seller being able to hold down that camp indefinitely (win DPS races, etc). It will be a more more supply/demand market than previous ones where certain items and limited options could skew things.

    This is going to be an interesting year, seeing how these new servers shake out. I personally think the retention post-Velious/Luclin will be better. Maybe post-PoP too, but we won't know until we get there.
    Skuz likes this.
  12. Komodon Elder


    Again, I just see that being too much a blanket statement on casual gameplay and too short sight focused of an assumption on why many of those casuals choose to play *this* game that people are hanging their hat on there with this server. Especially given there basically seemed to have been no comparative shortages of casuals coming out to play Aradune for latest example.

    Like I said in my last post, with the majority of the non-casual crowd flip flopping their priority care approaches and pushing their chip piles where they have...at the end of the day there is only one way this server plays out in a way that maintains an extended healthy population. Mischief is either going to be the record level RMT/Cheating/Bot Army/Krono Farming haven they are betting/hoping it's going to be on a much much larger scale then ever before, that maintains enough consistent and *worthwhile* buyer interest in raid items that get farmed for sale at a shattering record pace.....or the not caring enough implosion that occurs at top end when it doesn't makes it's way all the way down through the casuals (who as a whole seems to have the same track record of being just as prone to the "I only want to play here if it's the current hot *it* server" aspect as the hardcores) and it hits large scale universal afterthought "when the next TLP?" status much faster then the previous TLP servers that saw huge initial interest. There is not going to be a middle ground there imo.

    So yeah, just as I think the guy chiming in his surface assumption before you was vastly overestimating the actual amount of people who tend to stick around these TLP servers while having zero interest in partaking in the casual instanced raid game themselves, I think you are ultimately overestimating just how far that "now I can buy any piece of raid loot I want!" appeal is going to go in regards to keeping those casual players around as a whole with the other variable changes randomized loot and guilds prioritizing raiding for krono sales present. Most whom that really care *that* much about it in theory which were probably already first in the line to be your standard get their fill and not end up hanging around the server types to begin with anyway and regardless of the ruleset.
  13. Niskin Clockwork Arguer


    So this statement specifically gets at something I don't think people understand about casuals. The average causal doesn't think this server will allow them to buy any piece of raid loot they want. There will be a few where they really want it and they will rain Krono down from the sky to buy that shiny, but most will be happy to have access to gear they never could have before, even if it's not the latest and greatest.

    I can only go by how this server interested me. If you asked me in February if I was going to play on this year's TLP, I would have had to take some time to stop laughing before I responded, "no." I'm way too casual to keep up with a TLP, probably won't even join a guild, and definitely won't be raiding. However if you had asked me if I would play on FV if it got reset and everybody had to start over, I would have have said I'd consider it. There are a lot of things that are No Drop, not just raid loot. Free-trade opens up a lot of doors, not just the newest and coolest doors.

    Again, for me, I'm not a TLP hopper, so next year's impending server has no draw by default, unless it's some amazing ruleset that makes Mischief/Thornblade look boring. Even then, I can't imagine what that could be that would be more useful to me as a casual than this current ruleset. Free-Trade+Random specifically is what drew me in, one or the other probably wouldn't be enough.

    In previous discussions on people who play on a TLP, casuals didn't seem to really be part of that. Race to 50, raid, raid, raid, that doesn't scream casual. Were there casuals on Aradune? I don't know. Probably not many compared to the hardcore crowd. Causals like nostalgia too, but TLP's are geared for hardcore players that like spending a lot of money on bags.

    Agnarr was the TLP for casuals, now this one might steal some of those and bring in others. I might actually see a haste belt other than an FBSS in the first year. Maybe one I've never even had before. When could I say that before?

    So while some people will jump to the next one no matter how cool these ones are, and some people will stay and ride it out, we won't know much about how that's going for a few months. I'm curious to see what things look like once the Bazaar is in. Pricing and availability of good-but-not-best items will tell us a lot about whether causals will want to be there or not.
    Stymie likes this.
  14. Lejaun Augur

    I think we all have a pretty good, rough idea of what is being talked about here.
  15. Vindicator Journeyman

    The retention will be difficult to gauge for awhile. One thing for sure that the servers have working against them is that people are getting back to work. Aradune / Rizlona and even Mangler had a very healthy boost because many people were starting to work at home for much of 2020. Many came to the new servers, but a strong portion stayed with their servers instead of switching to the new rules.

    Every TLP server has attrition, especially when a new TLP is released. It will be interesting to see how Mischief / Thornblade play out. On the very bright side, besides having very unique rulesets that will interest many, they have the fallback of merging together to keep a healthy population going for a long time.

    As for myself, I'm still very much in love with the server. I rushed to 50 to take advantage of being max level, but I've been taking it very slow with my alts. I've never felt more relaxed in EQ. I know gear will come eventually, and I don't feel the need to camp very many specific mobs. I've been enjoying a lot of zones I normally would not level up in, just because I can. Even with my initial main character grind, we hit a few zones not normally used to level up in.
  16. NumberWonEUteeth New Member

    Is buying items with Krono RMT?
  17. code-zero Augur

  18. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    RMT stands for Real Money Trading. Every krono that enters the game world is a result of such a trade. So buying a krono from DBG is actually RMT*. Trading or spending a krono you bought from another player, with plat or in-game items is not RMT.

    * In this particular case, the money goes directly to DBG themselves and is not against the EULA. It is still "pay-to-win" though.

    Paying or receiving real money from anyone else for ingame items/services is against the EULA.
  19. Green_Mage Augur

    Wow what a stupid prediction. Lets look at some facts:

    Right now planar chest pieces are going for about 2 krono. They are easy to farm, widely available to any casual raid guild, and not that good as far as stat improvements to your character go. But they are near-BiS for most classes so they cost 2 krono.

    Crimson Robe of Alendine is going for at least 4 krono (usually around 6 lately it seems). And again, people that understand stats in classic understand this item is unlikely to make a big difference in their character.

    So when is it going to be 1000p for the CRA? Like halfway through kunark or later most likely.

    How does it logically follow that "There will be no value for practically any item. There will be no meaningful progression of your character because you will buy all your BiS loot for 1000 plat a slot."

    There will be so much raid loot that Sal`Varae's Robe of Darkness will somehow be valued at 1000p? How does that work?

    You probably can't even get the giant or dragon quest robe in Velious for 1000p. The only thing that has changed with this loot system is that many valuable trade items are no longer eaisily box camped AFK. They will be old raid items farmed by guilds. And no, the fact that SMRs are going to be near worthless by Velious probably won't spoil your average players time in that era.

    Items that actually do make a difference to your character, like haste and FT items, will fetch far more krono at first and retain their value longer. As the game progresses -- there will be more valuable items, not less. My guess is the BiS Velious robe wont be cheap until GoD -- and still cost more than 1000p...

    I'm going to try to remember to hold you accountable for your stupid prediction come Velious. Then we can catalog how wrong you were the next "sky is falling" post you make about a loot change or idea.
    Nyvlag likes this.
  20. Nyvlag Elder

    Literally everything you said. Yup.

    This market is DIFFERENT. It's not broken. It's just different. It's the first FV TLP. It was BOUND to be different. Add to that the fact that there is less (not none, but less) item scarcity due to Kronolord RMT'ers being unable to fully lock down an individual item (GEBs, for example)... Bingo bango.

    Everyone who has done more than 1 TLP by now understands that you don't need anything but banded armor to succeed for a **LONG** time. If you choose to buy a Crimson Robe of Alendine (or any other Planar gear), you are doing so due to nostalgia. Not because it's required. Prices reflect this.
    nagash101 likes this.