Loot Pinata vs RMTers

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Surebuddy, May 29, 2021.

  1. HoodenShuklak Augur

    The biggest negative to abundant gear is to tunnel questers and hardcore raiders.

    I know this because I was both.

    I also think it's great to see something unique to breathe life into a solid game.
  2. Gheed Augur

    Agreed about trying something new, its good they did. Wholeheartedly disagree about this keeping "casuals" around longer. A casual nowadays is someone who logs in a few nights a week and raids with a DZ guild. These casuals do not get left behind because of a lack of loot. They quit because the further you get into EQ the more time you must commit to keep your character up to date, plain and simple. A casual being able to buy their raid loot will not effect their playtime in regards to needing to farm AAs/farm keys/attend raids. Combine that with faster unlocks and not Selo's level exp and I definitely do not think this will be the casual paradise people think.

    If anything, I think hardcore players will burn out even faster than usual.
  3. Ultrazen Augur

    The hand wringing over loot is comical.

    1. Classic will be gone in a month, just how fast do you think loot should drop?
    2. Nothing, outside of maybe a handful of pre nerf items is worth a crap in classic. None of it's worth 50 plat much less Krono, people are insane.
    3. A lot of people play a lot of different characters. I personally have at least 4 right now I'd like to semi gear.

    DBG could drop a bag of money in your driveway, and some people would complain it was too heavy. This TLP is the single best thing that ever happened to this game.
    Sraad, NoMoreTLPs, Fallfyres and 3 others like this.
  4. Gheed Augur

    I dont really understand the whole thing about "classic will be over soon, the loot sucks anyways".

    So in kunark you'll say "kunark will be over soon, the loot sucks anyways"

    Then in velious, "velious will be over soon, the loot isn't even that great"

    If people like it, they like it and will play. But man.. that is a pretty dumb thing to say.
    Raptorjesus5 likes this.
  5. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Yeah.

    There are many ways to define a casual, what is casual on a Live server will drastically differ to what is considered casual on a TLP.
    Even between TLP of different "cadence" unlock speeds the definition will shift.

    Casual is therefore a "relative" term, and it must be considered in context, if by casual we say those who log in less than X number of days a week or play for less than X hours a day those X's will be a different number per each server type.

    When I say casual I mean those who are not raiding at all, or who raid less than 25% of the same days as their guild does.

    You're correct in saying that casuals quit later on due to the amount of time needed to remain "current" after all up until Luclin player power is 100% from gear, but I think it goes deeper than that.
    I think players fall out of love with EQ in the later expansions because the "impact" of any one thing is lessened when you have an increasing list of things that go towards your player character increasing in perceptible power, for example:
    • Pre-Luclin a single gear item is a far bigger power increase as a percentage of that player's perceptible power.
    • By live a single piece of gear can be thousands of HP better than what it replaces and yet it will be so small an increase as a percentage of what's making a player strong that it is far less significant.
    • In Luclin each AA can feel like a power gain
    • By live you need thousands of AA to really "feel" an increase.
    EverQuest diversifies the Player Power pool into so many different subsets that no one thing feels impactful, this is why "gear inflation" actually occurs, if you don't see a meaningful increase in stats why even bother upgrading?
    EverQuest moves from a game where you make "large strides in power" just solely from individual gear items to a game of "normal steps" from gear and AA to a game of "small steps" from gear, aa & trophies to a game of "moving forward a single millimetre at a time" from a large shopping-list of small power increase measure.
    If the trend continues we will be making such small incremental changes to our characters that even a substantial amount of playtime will only result in barely perceptible improvements.

    However, to come back to casuals, the server ruleset of Mischief/Thornblade is very much casual friendly as far as gear goes, and the other things, the AA etc. well they get a lot easier to obtain if your player character is wearing decent gear.

    Burn out of hardcore Raiders, well if they don't take any down-time raiders will burn out regardless of what the loot situation is, but burn out is not the same as lack of interest, and if the only reason a raider is raiding is to get gear then they aren't raiding for a reason that will keep them playing.
    I mean I have been in just about every kind of guild that there is and the reasons I enjoy raiding are more centred around being a part of a team, loot is just something I need in order to carry out the role I play, it's nothing more than a tool, a means to an end.
    Fallfyres likes this.
  6. Gheed Augur

    I agree with most of what you said.

    Burn out and lack of interest are the same thing. I think the main reason people raid is to acquire raid gear. Being "part of a team" is secondary to increasing the power of your character. You are definitely in the minority there.

    The amount of "casuals" that stick around on a server while not raiding at all must be astronomically low. Perhaps the loot will change that but I don't think so.

    I suppose we just have to wait and see though
    Skuz likes this.
  7. KrakenReality Augur


    Casuals are like glaciers you only see 10% of what is there.
  8. PotatoPowa Elder

    What made EQ a better game than WoW was that WoW used the everyone gets a prize model. Items for all!!! Yaaaaay.

    At first it seems cool. Over time you realize your loot is meaningless. It's not treasure. It was too abundant and easy to get. The excitement wears off.
  9. KrakenReality Augur


    Ahh, so that's why WoW only peaked at 12,000,000 players...total failure.
  10. The Greatest Beaver Journeyman

    I for one am enjoying the massive loot, but if you don't like it guess what their are 10 other TLP's that might suit you but I bet your in the minority the same, way the people cried when they added DZs, and now no one could imagine playing on a server without dzs, again if you don't like the rule set you have a ton of other servers to play on, I for one am not leaving because I like to do new things.
    Fallfyres, Bardy McFly and Skuz like this.
  11. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    WoW's "innovation" and major differentiator to EverQuest at least right from the very start was that it had the levelling group-path and the gearing raid-path that EverQuest had but it also had one hugely significant addition

    A levelling solo-path.

    The reason it hit such astronomical numbers was not a single thing, it was a whole bunch of stuff.
    Blizzard was a multi-million player hit-game maker, its prior titles had a massive impact on gaming as an industry and they had a longstanding loyal fanbase of millions of players.
    It reduced the tedium of EverQuest upon which it was based by making the journey to max level process a far less painful one, it made questing much easier as a solo player so that you were not 100% dependent upon other players to gain levels, gear and player power and that allowed players to play at their own pace, on their own time, and not be forced into long periods of doing nothing meaningful while waiting to get into a group or while searching for other players to build one.
    And if you want mass appeal, know your target audience, Blizzards audience was predominantly made up of single players, a few liked to play with others, even fewer liked big teams, if they had not created a way to play WoW solo they would have been ignoring the majority of their fans.

    WoW is still more popular than EQ so are several other later MMO that have plenty of item availability.
  12. Nyvlag Elder

    I'm gonna say it...

    It's okay to admit you wanna pay this month's rent with kroners. We really don't need a treatise on all the reasons you, a professional game developer and game economics designer, has decided this change is bad for the game. For once in the past (however many years it's been since Ragefire/Lockjaw) -- the people who don't wanna deal with kronolords have a server.

    You have several other TLPs to choose from to try and make your rent payment. Note: This is not directed at any single person; it is more a general statement for all the people complaining that casuals are benefiting.
    Sraad, NoMoreTLPs, Stymie and 2 others like this.
  13. Waring_McMarrin Augur


    EQ loot was so meaningful at times you would replace a slot multiple times within a single expansion if you picked up each tier of loot as you progressed. Now your loot will last an entire year if you are lucky and don't replace a dropped item with a TS item mid expansion.
    KrakenReality and Skuz like this.
  14. Baulkin Elder

    Great to see the average player having an easier time. Even if it is at the cost of the RMT crowd.
  15. The Greatest Beaver Journeyman

    Seriously if you think about it DZs added more loot to a server then a mob a few more pieces of random gear, this server truly breaks the loot monopolies held by a few people who sold raid loot.
    NoMoreTLPs and Fallfyres like this.
  16. Lifetap Augur

    Good
    NoMoreTLPs and Fallfyres like this.
  17. PotatoPowa Elder

    When a kid has nothing but ice cream and cake topping to eat, at first he is delighted.

    After a month, how excited do you think he will be? Bored as hell and wanting to go somewhere else is more likely.
  18. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Monopolization of group gear was a problem on prior TLP.

    There is no such thing as monopolization of raid gear though. Join any guild that conducts organized raiding, put in the time and you will earn gear.

    Those who sold raid gear were simply offering non-raiders the option to get raid gear without needing to actually do any raiding, that was an increase in opportunity while group level named monopolization reduced opportunity.
    Bardy McFly likes this.
  19. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Good theory, let's see how it pans out over the next few years.
  20. brickz Augur

    All this extra loot is fantastic. I hope they ignore the hardcore whiners. Imagine if it was this+selos exp
    NoMoreTLPs, Fallfyres and andross77 like this.