Looking in RoS raids halfway into expansion year

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Fian, May 15, 2018.

  1. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    I didn't say it wasn't Ok, I said there were too many, I can't recall seeing any recent raids that if you have more tanks & healers you could get by. It would be nice to see some events where the DPS wasn't the main focus.

    Would be nice to see some more variety in raids, not just a DSP fest.
    Arraden likes this.
  2. sojero One hit wonder

    I can see what you are saying because I was in the same guild for around 8 years before I went to the guild Lianeb ran raids for, and then to the one I am in now.

    The problem is, I had to decide is this game a job or a pass time fun activity. I found that when I left, most the people that I was friends with did the same, we all ended up in the same guild in the end. Like minded people flow together, thus why the "elite" <-- thats a joke btw, end up together.

    For me it was a job for a long time as I was running raids etc, and it became taxing when I realized either the skill level or the dedication level of the others was not what it was for me, so for my own happiness I had to leave. Took me over 2 years of not being happy to see that.

    That did not mean I don't still talk and group with the others that are still in the old guild, but I am happier now, and for a pass time activity, even one I have done for 17 years, that is the most important part to me.
  3. Allayna Augur

    I know Machin Shin works to squeak every. extra. inch. of dps out of each player, currently going back on off nights and running HoT, CoTF, RoF and OMM raids to get RK3 discs that are still utilized by DPS classes/tanks/healers/rez sticks/twincast clickies. We have done this for a long time and continue to push our members to apply themselves. It is a leadership initiative. We also have historically run the open raids on the server in off season, which we just started up again last Saturday.

    Our knights dps, as do our priests, cc classes etc and I'll say from watching different guild twitch feeds...the difference isn't our dps, because it is lower than other top end guilds...it's execution.

    Overall statement, maybe instead of saying, content xyz is too hard, reflect and think...are we working hard enough?
    Tiggold likes this.
  4. Fian Augur

    This is a game. If your response is "work harder", then you have lost sight of the purpose of the game. People like a challenge, but if it gets too hard, it just discourages people.

    Bottom line is we look at the same issue and come to different conclusions. Fact: Fewer and fewer guilds are beating current expansion raids. You look at that and think they should work harder (until dev's raise the bar yet again). Others look at that and say dev's did a poor job balancing, and need to tune things down.
  5. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    I agree.
    That's the first question that should be asked, especially since much of the past content isn't "hard" anymore even for lower numbers due to levels and new gear.

    And i applaud the "leadership decision" you speak about.
    Not all are like that. Some people say "loot is not worth it" (when the gain would not be from loot but other things perhaps) and others consider "going back" as something bad.

    If i were to log simply because i have no immediate gain from an event or raid night, that's what i'd already consider being disloyal to my guild, because i've agreed to a "pact" of sorts when i joined.
    There are those people, and those tend to be the ones needing it most too :/

    Determination, execution makes a difference, certainly.
    But being in the guild your tag displays, you are commenting from a high horse on the general issue brought up by "lower" guilds. No guild on my server is in the top10 serverwide, and i see the same issues on my server - to a varying degree yes, but it's there.
    DPS checks *are* a definite issue these days, and becoming ever more one as the "complexity" increases.

    Perhaps it'd help for the overall discussion if Dev's were to reveal some expectations to certain events...
    Along the "you got to be this high to enter" posts, only with data, e.g. "when designing this event we were expecting people to deal nnn DPS sustained" or something similar.
    Because my impression is that, if some idea was actually in the Dev's mind and it wasn't just pure spreadsheeting, his idea was based on the "wrong" baseline.
    Not for every event, but for some.
  6. Lianeb Augur

    Simply put the raids are NoT balanced around 40 people doing 50k dps. They are out of your reach either recruit people that show up or do more dps.

    The situation you are in has only a few choices
    Get more people
    Get more dps
    Move to another guild
    Complain boards
    Belexes likes this.
  7. ShadowMan Augur

    Expecting people to play at a certain level to win isn't really working harder. Some raids are not balanced great and unfortunately often go way to long before being addressed, as we saw in EoK. But others simply require a guild play up to a certain standard as a whole in order to win like we are seeing in some T1 RoS. Guilds that are not fielding full raids, that don't have perfect rosters are still winning 2 if not all 3 events in T1 RoS if they play to a reasonable degree as an entire raid.

  8. Frogmancer Augur

    This defense is so disingenuous. “It’s just a game” sure, but if I want to play soccer in my local league and not be a drag on my teammates, I have to work hard and get better. If I want to cook for friends and events that I attend as a pastime, I have to work harder and get better. EverQuest is not different, except “work harder” is actually aliased to “Learn more” because, as someone pointed out in an earlier thread, EverQuest (and all MMOs) measure skills using knowledge as currency.

    I’ll use me as an example - I raided with Infinit/Public until recently and won the parse on almost every event. Two weeks ago, I moved to Lunacy Unbound and learned from other players doing better than me. In doing so, I increased my DPS (consistently) by 40%, and I’m still working on improving. There are things to know to get better. Learn them. Every member of a raid force should take responsibility for finding the information they need to get better.
    Belexes likes this.
  9. Quill Augur

    Honestly.. one thing they should take a look at from WoW is raid scaling.

    The core problem they've always had is trying to have one setup across the board. But what challenges top guilds, destroys lesser guilds. What challenges lesser guilds, top guilds roflstomp. So simply make two levels. They did this all the way back in the very first incarnation of instancing with LDoN easy and hard missions. They already have the tech given that raid missions these days are largely a scaled up version of the group missions.

    So simply create say a Normal and then an EPIC Version. Normal would be something lesser guilds could readily beat with effort, while the EPIC version has the values cranked with the expectation that only the top guilds using extreme coordination would beat it, particularly when current.

    Instead what tends to be the case is often devs start with a EPIC version, and then crank it down midway through.

    Then simply use a setup whereupon the Normal gives you the gear, and then you can boost that gear with an Epic on-your-cursor clickie. As an example. Say you had a 2 stage evolving item. Level 1 is Normal Stats and Level 2 is Epic Stats(call it 10% more?). You get the drops via Normal or Epic runs, and then everybody gets an item on the cursor from EPIC raids that they right click to add evolve xp. When you hit 100%... you've earned the final item.

    Then throw in sweeteners in the form of Hero AA for clearing Epic's and what not. The progression is then... 1) get Normal down to farm items/currency. 2) Get the Epic down to get bonus items/currency along with click items to evolve the drops.

    That way you get the best of both worlds. Lesser Raids get to defeat the content, while Top End Raids can further max their toons and rightfully say they won it on the 'true' toughness setting. It would also allow Lesser Raids a base with which to look to improve their times/coordination in order to take shots at the Epic Raids, without being completely roadblocked into frustration.

    Heck, i'd kind of suggest they could set it so that its Normal Raids on Expansion release. Then drop-in the extra Epic settings dz mid-expansion. That then gives raids bonus stuff to do mid-year, and can take what they've learned in the first half of the expansion and apply it on the back half. All while being extremely cheap to do on Daybreak's side.
    Arraden and frankie78227 like this.
  10. bigpapa Augur

    well we don't have enchanter as top dps , they are the one you are listing there and we can only beat balance of power in ROS.

    that problem is so easy to * fix *
    tier 1 =easy mode no dps check no road blocker
    tier 2 = harder
    tier 3 very hard
    so everyone would have fun .

    do higher guilds ( " elites" ) have a problem with a tier one zone to be * easy * one? hard or easy they would destroy it anyway . but at least weakest guilds could play some in new expansion and not spending 18 months ( or more ) , in the same one.

    no one asking for ALL easy mode and I don't want that either .
  11. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon


    We are losing more and more raid guilds, I expect more to fall before the next expansion. If raid guilds continue to fall at the rate they are now it won't be long and there won't be enough raid guilds to make it worth devs making raid content. We already have at least 1 server without any raid guilds in current raid content. How many servers have got to get to this stage before things change?

    When a guild falls, a lot of its members stay where they are as a non raid guild or quit. 2 guilds on a server with 40ish members each won't necessarily save the other guild if one folds.

    Should we be looking at reducing the required numbers to raid? Raid numbers dropped from 72 to 54 a few years back, is it time to reduce those numbers again?
    Zhaunil_AB and Arraden like this.
  12. DaciksBB Augur

    They balance raids around a group of people that do more than press 1 button. If the majority of those guilds are happy with pressing1 button, they can be happy with staying in eok and gorowyn.

    the concept of not having to work for what you want in a game is laughable, what's the point of playing if everything is handed to you just for showing up?

    gorowyn is very easy
    Brohg and EnchFWO like this.
  13. Allayna Augur

    8 guilds beat all three T1 raids on opening day, balance of power being the roadblock for the other 4 guilds who also beat *some* raid on opening day.
    Frogmancer likes this.
  14. Belexes ForumQuester

    Based on what I have seen with the players in this game post, this is the start of a slippery slope. You have a hard version, with great rewards and you have an easier version with lesser rewards.

    What will happen is players will complain why they can't get the good stuff 'cause the raid is too hard and they either want to be able to buy that higher gear with coin they earn from easy versions or they insist the hard version needs to be easier, so they can have the same loot those darned "elites" are earning.

    There were be even more disparaging remarks about "elites" and how they are out of touch and are controlling the game.

    There will be more "casuals" saying they are going to quit because only "elites" are being catered to.

    Did I miss anything?

    I see this in real life too and I can't even imagine how people start thinking this way in our societies. I just don't understand how people think this way now. Maybe I am too old.
  15. Natal Augur

    My warrior can face tank every named in the game, so I don't understand why your shaman can't.

    That is basically what you are saying.
    Tegila likes this.
  16. Arraden Augur

    And DGB actually does this in DC Universe - elite raids / elite groups with elite loot, so, they can do it, have done it, in this game (as you say) and I would welcome it.

    We have tier'd spells, why not tier'd gear from two raids.
  17. Frogmancer Augur

    People forget they tried this in SoD to a very great deal of consternation and gnashing of teeth...
  18. Arraden Augur

    No. Don't even.
    Guilds beat it on day 1 because they were testing it on test and won it on test.

    We're 6 months into the expansion and the number of guilds that have beat all raids? we're 18 months into EoK and there are guilds who started EoK 18 months ago that haven't completed it... that signals a combination of issues with one big red flag. When was the last time even the most casual of casual raiding guilds actually took 18 months to finish content after it came out???
    Zhaunil_AB likes this.
  19. CrazyLarth Augur

  20. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    It was possible for any guild to test the raids on beta if they chose to do so.
    Zaviere, Allayna and Belexes like this.