Looking in RoS raids halfway into expansion year

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Fian, May 15, 2018.

  1. Fian Augur

    On Tunare server, we have 4 raid forces. Before RoS came out, here is where things stood:
    Lunancy Unbound: Completed EOK expansion
    Vertigo: Stuck at Queen, 2nd on server to beat Prince
    Infinit: Stuck at Queen, 3rd on server to beat Prince
    Avenging Storm: Stuck at Queen, last raid force to beat Prince

    By this time last year, only Avenging Storm had not beaten Prince. I believe LU had already beaten expansion.

    Now let's look at it this year:
    Lunancy Unbound: Just now pushing into RoS T3
    Vertigo: Beats Goro each week, has beaten OT, but not recently due to attendance issues. Has beaten EOK T2, but not any T3 raids.
    Avenging Storm: Hasn't beaten any RoS raids, has beaten Queen but only with major help from LU raid force
    Infinit: Hasn't beaten a new raid in a year

    The bottom line is that non-elite raid forces are having a rough time with the RoS expansion. I expect them to eventually beat Goro, but that is about it. Vertigo might eventually beat a T2 raid (no clue how hard they are), but the EOK T3 flag requirement will slow that down.

    From my observation, here are the biggest challenges to the weaker raid forces beating raids:
    1. DPS checks - Queen and OT require a strong dps to beat. That means 54 players, and those 54 all have to be carrying their weight.
    2. AE - Warcasters show up, and the raid forces just wipe. They can't handle the grey screen AE. Once some dps die, they no longer have the push necessary to beat Queen. Skyfire raid is also pretty extreme when it comes to so many meteor circles showing up at once.

    I have to assume that those designing raids are testing them with elite raiders. They are assuming a certain dps level, and a certain amount of hitpoints, that the more casual raiders just can't meet. The EOK T3 requirement didn't even slow down the elite guilds, but it will be a significant barrier to the casual raid guilds (at least T1 was unlocked without it).

    My hope in writing this is that Daybreak will take a long hard look at the difficulty level of raids in future expansions, and at least make the T1 raids more accessible. As EQ population servers dwindle, it will become even harder to field 54 in a raid. If players can't do any raids in current expansion, I have to assume that players interest in raiding will dwindle, and in many cases, stop subscribing.
  2. Cicelee Augur

    Not to be disrespectful, but it feels like the best players of those three non LU guilds should come together and form a guild that can complete ROS...
    Axxius and Sindaiann like this.
  3. Bigfan Augur

    I kinda agree there, looks like the 3 lower tier guilds has some following direction issues.
  4. Brohg Augur

    54 willing raiders have very little excuse not to beat Gorowyn, Fell Foliage, End of Empires, and Crypt Robbers, plus older raids as they will. If the wins are not happening, it is not due to difficulty of the content. Drusella's Vault has been quite a roadblock, we'll just have to see this coming weekend if it remains so.

    Their raiders are manifestly, empirically not checking the boxes for baseline play of their respective classes. They should be encouraged to visit these forums as you have, in particular the Class Discussion area, to find expertise that may not be resident in their own guild / raid.
  5. Fian Augur

    It appears you have reading comprehension issues. How will coming together solve the AE issue? Regardless, if the goal is 4 raid guilds become 2 raid guilds, then it seems like you are proposing that server population get cut in half. My proposal is that devs cater less to elite and make a wider range of raid encounters.

    One final observation, if the 3 did become 1, then the server no longer has a casual raid force. Without those, the elite guilds don't have anyone to recruit from.
    Yimin likes this.
  6. Brohg Augur

    No one said "coming together" - this ain't a pep talk like SHOW MORE HEART Y"ALL. There are buttons they're not pushing, period. Buttons they do have, that they are not using. Casual players have completely the same spells & AA available to them that "elites" do
  7. Fian Augur

    This does shows how out of touch the elites are to the casual guilds. Yes, raiders in casual guilds, have issues with knowledge of class, AA, gear, etc. That is why they are called casual. They also pay $15 a month to play the game. Without them, there isn't enough money to support the dev staff (which apparently just had layoffs because EQ isn't bringing in enough money). Devs have made a decision to cater just to the elites in raids, and it isn't helping the server population.
    NameAlreadyInUse and Yimin like this.
  8. Brohg Augur

    This deserves a little separate attention. There is an incredible range of raid encounters. The difficulties you describe these raid forces having are only versus 7 out of like 300 EQ raids
  9. Radamus Journeyman

    Seriously complaining about casual/hardcore raiders? How about you "casual" raiders learn your class a little better so that you can maximize your personal DPS. Casual raiding means the schedule, not attitude or knowledge.

    I know many hardcore raiders with alts in group gear than can double parses of most casual raiders with the casual raiders doubling the alt's AA count. There are countless examples of this on every server. The only difference between an "elite" or casual raider is their dedication in learning their class, learning raid mechanics, and listening/following directions.
  10. ptah Augur

    Radamus I agree with you.
    Lu got a higher standard and rep. Their teamwork is well above the others.
    Vert is coming along. Very good depth and effort is showing up.
    Public looks burnout. Little to nothing positive happens. Team is lucky to get 40 raiders and just appears to not understand alliance or burn. 99% burnout imho
    AH or Avenging storm is assisted by LU alts and mains. DPS is not the issue here. its the non LU tanks or healers.. weekend warriors who wants to min max a healer here..? dps dps dps

    Yes if ego and few other drama issues aside.. public and vert team up.. interesting to see how fast wins would come.

    In a dream world.. AH does thurs fri sat sunday mid day raids.. not F 2200 bs.. high noon.. good god tons of wins as well. I suppose a name change to Avenging Storm open raids vs afterhours

    Overall to OP I think its 4 teams but pop on server is more healthly with 3. Atm public is weakest and not seeing returns. AH is heavy helped by LU.

    Vert and LU are fine.. yet they still are looking to get better and bigger as summer slow melt into the future.

    The content is fine. The teams need be filled to 54.. and correctly use alliance spells.. I mean raids are balance around using them.. why not use the best or one of best tools?

    Sidenote 3 of 4 teams raid on shared days and shared times.. eating at each other..

    To an active player on Tunare.. you got options of any style you like 6 days a week.. not all is bad.
    Adventure well and have fun.
  11. smash Augur

    As i see there 4 types of players.

    Raiders those some call elites who need to know to maximize their class
    Raiders who are not pulling their weight
    Casuals, they do low amount of raids, but still got time to roll in aa
    Casuals with low play time in total.
  12. Cicelee Augur

    At some point, players have to play better. You can only dumb down raid mechanics and damage so much. A guild that cannot defeat EOK T3 at this stage of the game is simply not going to be a raid guild, and they need to merge with others in order to become one. Or just accept that you are not a raid guild and move on with the group game.

    The odd thing is that the thread title talks about ROS raid difficulty, yet the guilds in question cannot defeat EOK raids. Walk first before you complain about running please...
  13. mmats Augur

    That $15 affords them the same opportunities that "elites" get. If players dont want to try to improve then thats on them, because all raids have proven to be very beatable at this point.
  14. Fian Augur

    Ok, let's try this a different way since elites still aren't getting it:

    TBM - Raid force of only 40 could beat several raid encounters in Fear and Hate
    EOK - Took a raid force of at least 50 at first to beat EOK T1 raids
    RoS - Takes 54 on anything but Goro, and even then requires a superior knowledge of class/AA to beat

    It isn't that the casuals are getting dumber, the raid content is getting harder. That's a design flaw by the devs.

    P.S. I know elites could do the above with much less. Those numbers were for casuals, first time wins.
  15. Brohg Augur

    That is not true for either EoK or RoS.

    You seem to be equating "casual" with "bad and also lazy". They are not the same thing.
    Sindaiann and feeltheburn like this.
  16. Critts Augur

    I would say raid EOK or TBM until your raid group can live throught the AE once or twice. You can also pay attention to when the adds are going to spawn (it’s a certain %). And before they do have your tank stand at the spawn point it’s the same each time and hit disk before they do “defection” then use ranged DPS to crush the warcasters if they spawn. They will never spawn back to back. So pretty much save your burst DPS for warcaster spawns position them away from raid to avoid AE on your casters and gage how much burst DPS you have if they spawn more then once.

    Make sure the Queen’s reflect is being disspelled and have someone in the tunnel to pull out the adds that lock her HP. Charm puppets and win. Now beating T3 event one.. that’s a different story.
  17. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    I think ROS has too many DPS checks and not enough X amount of adds spawn deal with them and proceed. I dislike timed events, if a guild has a good tank/heal force but a low DPS force they should still be able to proceed, even if it takes them a lot longer to complete an event.

    I know a lot of elite guilds dislike the current deal with X amount of adds instead of a timer, as currently they can complete events in less than half the time dealing with very few adds, which trivialises the events.
    Arraden and Zhaunil_AB like this.
  18. Brohg Augur

    why should not-enough-dps be okay, but not-enough-tanks&healers isn't?
    Allayna and Sancus like this.
  19. bigpapa Augur

    pretty much the same in rathe :
    *Scarlet vengeance got all ros raids down
    * the silent minority got all eok done and one raid in ROS ( balance of power ).

    * phoenix rises got prince , queen , and the kar zok down and balance of power in ros
    * Frayed knot ( about same as Phoenix rises ) PS: both guilds are doing joint raid for ancient dragon , and atrebe sathir in eok ( who is easy when not bugged ~ at the beginning the 7th mob won't agro and it reset ),

    in ros = TSM , PR , and FK got one raid down ( balance of power who is pretty easy ).

    fell foliage PR and FK joint raid ( 2 days a week ) no win yet same for end of empire .

    atm fell foliage seem not close to be beaten from us , end of empire , we got to the final part once.

    so in rathe only one guild doing ok in ros, all others are struggling .

    and we are all using gina , game parse , and shm alliance , and other alliance as well .

    on our joint raids, we have 10 + on each side on the wait list , and getting key players ( class ) to fill the raid to try to beat T1 ros .

    it seem to be a large gap between " elites" and other's , with DPS check and agro, or getting mobs fast enough.

    we were able to beat the kar zok in eok ( 1st t3 ) on joint raid when most were level 110....
    Foliax likes this.
  20. Jaay Lorekeeper

    Always the same complaints. "oh this raid is to hard, casuals cant do this bla bla bla bla"

    This is not World of Warcraft, This is EQ, for the love of god stop trying to make it that way....

    EQ is known to be hard, if you cant handle it then this is not the game for you end of discussion...
    Metanis and feeltheburn like this.