Looking for help from raiding druids

Discussion in 'Priests' started by Stephen51, Mar 14, 2021.

  1. Stephen51 Augur

    I don't play a druid (much), but my partner does. Two of her biggest problems on raids are mana, specifically post death/rez and AOE's. The first I should quantify, is dying and getting rezzed back into the fight, with little or no mana, and little or no ability to recoup it.

    Of the three priest class, druids have the poorest ability to do this, because as I understand it, their great wolf abilities which reduce the mana cost of spells whilst increasing their potency. A reduction in mana cost however helps very little when you dont have any mana in the first place....

    Druids are completely helpless - they have their bear regen pet (with one of the worst mechanics I have seen to stop the pet being re-cast, that I have seen), they can ask use a mod rod, request mana help from others. I also recent came across Fear Jewels of Mana, and I think she has a "Kiss of Erollisi Marr" clicky but neither give very much mana, and both have quite long recast timers (1 hour and 20 hours respectively). In this vein there is also staunch recovery, but its a once a raid night click.

    The other issue is death by AOE. We have recently been working the Aaryonar raid. She has her geomantra clicky but that doesnt seem to last long, and the recast seems quite long when you need it most.

    Any other suggestions, on help with either/both of these problems would be greatly appreciated.
  2. Szilent Augur

    Crusader's Tonic exists. At 3 powders per, it's not a super solution but does get mana out the dirt, without an extraordinary reuse timer, to at least re-cast Frenzied Growth on yourself.

    From upcoming anniversary events, Miniature Horn of Unity and Unified Phoenix Feather are ways for the group to cooperatively regen mana. Being the one to ask for those isn't specifically druidy, but if you're the one it matters most to, then that's a role you take on. Ditto being the one to make sure all guildies quest those up in the first place.

    By "help from guildies", I presume you mean all of cle Quiet Prayer, bst Focused Paragon of Spirits, and brd Rallying Call. If any of those weren't on your list, there's that.

    Hopefully the Aaryonar encounter gets less deadly for y'all as you sort the new mechanics :)
  3. Cragzop Cranky Wizard

    The absolute best thing your partner can do in raids is demand Calls instead of Rezzes. A Call after death will give your partner a chunk of mana unlike a rezz will. All priests should be helping druids out when they die like this (other classes benefit as well, but druids should be first priority for call usage).

    The LoN pack Potions of Harvest are decent in a pinch to get something back from zero. 5 sec recast delay on those as well.

    Your partner should make sure that they are hitting Wildtender Unity AA for the mask buff as soon as back as well as the familiar (it's not huge by any means, but you need to start getting something immediately). Good idea to double check and make sure the "restart" order of self buffing is mana return focused. And if using a 2h for max damage, make sure to bandolier to a mana return set after death.

    There's also the Rod of Dark Rites (tier 3 RoF) which will let you cast from health for a few spells.

    As far as AoEs go ... besides better gear and augs and regular and hero's aas ... make sure in group that chanters (or in a pinch wizards) are refreshing spell runes early and often. Especially on a raid like Aaryonar where there are down periods. Make sure the aa hots are used.
  4. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    Druid mana recovery has been an issue for about... 10 expansions now.

    When it was addressed in RoF they gave us the Mana Bear line. Which has not aged well. The pet lasts for 1 minute and casts this every 3-6 seconds (usually about 12-14 times over the 1 minute)

    [40218] Growing Exuberance
    Target: Pet Owner
    Range: 300'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0s, Recast: 5s
    Hate Mod: -1
    1: Increase Current Mana by 823
    Text: The exuberance of life refreshes your mind.

    Fun fact, the level 96, 106, and level 111 variants of the spell all use the same Growing Exuberance spell to return mana to their master at the same interval. The only difference between the different variants is the final pay out spell it casts when it desummons itself after 1 minute.

    [40201] Nurtured Replenishment III
    Restriction: Out of Combat
    Target: Pet Owner
    Range: 50'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: No
    Casting: 0s, Recast: 60s
    1: Increase Current Mana by 4530
    Text: The life force surrounding you refreshes your mind.
    Nature's growth restores up to #1 mana to you.

    [55861] Nourished Replenishment III
    Restriction: Out of Combat
    Target: Pet Owner
    Range: 50'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: No
    Casting: 0s, Recast: 60s
    1: Increase Current Mana by 5494
    Text: The life force surrounding you refreshes your mind.
    Nature's growth restores up to #1 mana to you.

    [59262] Sustained Replenishment III
    Restriction: Out of Combat
    Target: Pet Owner
    Range: 50'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: No
    Casting: 0s, Recast: 60s
    1: Increase Current Mana by 8782
    Text: The life force surrounding you refreshes your mind.
    Nature's growth restores up to #1 mana to you.

    So essentially the mana bear acts like a 850-950~ mana regen for the first minute and pays out 8.8k Mana at the end of the minute. With modern spell costs like our group heal being 3.8k mana base cost for example, which obviously no druid pays base value with preservation effects but you need this much to initiate casting the spell in the first place and having to wait 3-4 ticks of regen to get to that point often results in further deaths in high AE environments. So that first minute you are not really able to do much.

    If they instead reworked the mana bear to fire off the Replenishment on spawn, IE immediately when the bear is summoned, and then continue doing the Growing Exuberance proc every 3-6 seconds until it despawns a minute later, druids would be in a much better position mana wise post death. Even though at level 115 with 300k+ Mana pools, 8.8k mana is pretty weak Having it frontloaded would at least always give us one small boost of mana after a rez.

    Another thing I would suggest is never us Mod Rods as a druid when learning an event. Save their timer for post-rezzes. The ToV Mod rod is 25k Mana returned which is a decent chunk to get us going on healing a group again, not so much to DPS though.

    The Rod of Dark Rituals is only 5 casts which is better than nothing I suppose but nothing to write home about. I find I rarely use mine due to the 3 second cast time on it feeling like forever. Sometimes I will use it to twincast 3 DoTs after a rez if I need a bunch of DPS but thats about it.

    I do think a design change needs to be made to help druids out in this area though. Front-loading the pay off from mana bear would be a good step. I also think changing our Great Wolf AA line to work like the Shaman Pact of the Wolf AA line would help also. Having our Great Wolf be an instant recast Aura that gives everyone in group the group spell effect permanently and us the single spell effect would be huge. Eating a death and coming back in when both wolf forms are on cooldown you see how much we struggle without that mana preservation we consistently rely on. This also would have the upside of not having to make some weird macro that blocks and then unblocks the single version when casting the group one to prevent group bouncing due to stacking issues.
    Wulfhere likes this.
  5. Alkyvret Nature's Fervid Wrath Enthusiast

    Semi-raiding druid here. Mana is an issue, and I'm not sure anything I'm saying is new information, but here we go...
    Mana pet every 5-6 minutes, always, no matter what
    Modrods, duh
    ALWAYS have spirit of the great wolf or group spirit of the great wolf up. Ignoring the other buff components (like double crit dmg), it provides 135 points mana regen. Watch out, though, as the single version overrides the group version, but group version will not override single version. You can chain these with about 30sec to spare in between.
    If you have wildtenders unity (AA), click it when you get like 3 percent mana, if not cast your mask of the arbor tender to give you another 68 mana regen for like 7 hours
    If you have a miniature horn of unity, click it
    If you have a Unified Phoenix Feather, click it (from new group mission from anniversary)
    That's all we get for mana regen, not counting staunch... I'm sure we have some other clickies but those are what I have.
    Make sure to click a mount if it's an outdoor zone.
    If you have beastlords, ask them for focus paragon. If not, distillates of spirituality act as a mini hp and mana regen potion, clarity pots work too
    Now comes the fun part -utilizing whatever you can to save the mana you have.
    Use your most mana-efficient heals - that would be promise and viridavida - if your whole group is dotted, group heals are most efficient.
    When you get a gift of mana, depending on the role you're playing, either use it for a big heal or a big DoT (like Nature's Fervid Wrath)
    Something that's helped me out is raiding with an enchanter in group. Not only do they give you a gift of mana proc, but they have some other stuff to help out your mana (don't ask me, I don't know what). All I know is I put out a 9 minute burn with mana to spare with a chanter, and normally don't last 2 minutes without one.
    If you're a dps druid, avoid using your AA nukes, since they're a lot of mana for not a lot of damage, and clairvoyance doesn't apply to them, so you get no mana back on casting them.

    as for AoEs? Put yourself in for your frenzied growth rotation, that's 30k extra hp. Geomantra you mentioned, but diplomatic papers are another clicky for spell mitigate. Fancy feast is a mana free self heal. If you do die, recast preincarnation, so your DA can proc if you're about to die.

    Just my advice from a newbie druid in a semi-raiding guild, but if it helps, it helps.
  6. Cuuthbert Augur

    Mainly a bard but I do raid my druid when we are short druids... Yes mana recovery is a pain.... The new Feather and the unity horn are on different timers so save those for getting back into the fight...
    In raids on my druid I pick and choose my times to DPS.
    Main boss I tend to debuff and cast my Remote Sunfire and Composite winds on it.
    Adds - Winds of Vortex to debuff them all at once, Fervid wrath on the first one then start at the bottom of the ETW and put Horde and Sunshock on them working my way up allowing them to cook as the other DPS work down the etw
    If I get to 30% mana I go into heal mode. Usually this later in the fight and I can target the main tank help spot heal and use Group heal to keep the group up.

    You spoke of AE dmg. I melee on my druid as well, the proc for the 1h and the 2h on my druid proc a group heal and return minor amounts of mana. Eating AE damage all druids should be buffing themselves with
    Nature's Reaction Rk. III
    1: Cast: Reactive Regeneration III if Hit By Spell
    2: Limit: Target (PB AE allowed)
    3: Limit: Target (NPC Hatelist allowed)
    4: Limit: Target (NPC Hatelist allowed)
    5: Limit: Target (Area - PC Only allowed)
    6: Limit: Target (Directional AE allowed)
    7: Limit: Target (Frontal AE allowed)
    8: Limit: Spell Type (Detrimental only)
    10: Limit: Effect (Hitpoints allowed)
    11: Limit Effect: Current HP less than -22000

    This buff is a free group heal. Also keep Preincarnation up at all times.

    I do have bandoliers for 2H weapon and 1h with shield. If I am doing more DPS I switch to 2h because the sympathetic proc comes from damaging spells, if I am healing more I bando to 1H with Shield because healing spells fire the sympathetic proc on the weapon.

    Look into your AA heals read what they do, Tunares blessing and spirit of wood can be huge in getting through crappy AE times along with Nature's Boon.

    If you have taken dirt naps and mod rod is down, Click your unified feather go into heal mode and try and get your wildtenders unity and skin back up and running. If you are just casting heals you can live on 10% mana for a long time. The druid is a powerful class when you dig into the what they CAN do, but it is not as obvious as the key bind classes.

    I realize I am all over the map here, but hopefully you can find some gems to use in my chaotic post
  7. Szilent Augur

    This is realbad. Vortex blocks Blessing. You're single-handedly preventing all druids on the raid from using that heal.
  8. Szilent Augur

    This appears to say you're not using Feather, Horn early & regularly to benefit from their mana regen? Just your own Feather is 50 mana/tick when used on-cooldown. That's not a one-hit-fix for mana troubles, but leaving stuff like that on the shelf "just in case" is a way to get mana troubles. Do you similarly sandbag mod rods?

    On the second bit, it's implied that you're not dotting bosses? That's weird.
  9. Cuuthbert Augur

    I do throw a longer dot on bosses, but we run 4 bards and 4 necros so there is not much dot space. For feather and horn yes I do hit it regularly but hold of on it when things look dicey.
    When I hit dots on the main boss hard is when burn is called, So I know Haze from the chanter is up can really dig in with Vortex twin cast natures fury black wolf and let Fervid wrath really cook.
    When not burning on the main boss I tend to stick with Remote Sunshock, Chytrid Assault Rk. III, Composite winds and Typhonic Roar Rk. III. Direct damage does not chew through the mana as hard
  10. Cuuthbert Augur

    Oh and for mod rods, I chew those like tic tacs
  11. Szilent Augur

  12. Cuuthbert Augur

    I would agree with that statement but on the adds I have found when I go down the ETW they are not getting debuffed by other druids. If they were I would not use the Winds
  13. Cuuthbert Augur

    Yes Szilent I like the pet. It does marginal nuking but it is a group heal totem basically
    Wulfhere likes this.
  14. Wulfhere Augur

    It's a fun, albeit generally mediocre, choice for a spell gem.

    I posted a bug about the heals not affecting mercs a couple years ago and while testing the spells found that the last 2 (now 3) ranks, in combination, can keep a group heal going constantly. In a heal heavy environment, it can be quite mana (and attention) efficient compared to other druid healing options. Plus it (they) counts as a swarm pet for mages Of Many (omg ADPS!).
  15. Szilent Augur

    What am I not getting? I cast the spell, the shroom casts Chytrid Strike 6 times (it was resisted one of the times, so did nothing on that cast. we'll pretend that didn't happen.) for a total of 124254 damage, healing a maximum of 62136 per group member over 35 seconds - neither the damage nor the heal can be modified in any way since it's a swarm pet. This feels considerably below mediocre, to me

    Spell gems are at such a high premium for druids...
  16. talayen New Member

    I'd have to agree with the sentiment that mana management is one of the most important things for a raiding druid. None of our recovery options are good, but to ignore any of them is putting you behind the eight ball.

    Many of them have been mentioned already, but here's a list of ways I prolong my mana pool. The assumption can be made that I'm using these things on refresh in order to get as much possible mana back. Like Szilent said, there's no use in saving abilities for the worst case scenario - you leave so much on the table when you do this (with mana and with DPS).

    Mana Bear
    Mod Rod
    Horn of Unity (when all other feathers in group are down)
    Rod of Dark Rites - Use at the beginning of the fight (after twincast is used since it will eat multiple charges per cast) and then again at the end
    Mantle of Inasch (Circle of Mana IV) - Needs to be coordinated with others in raid who aren't doing CoP
    Farming GoM procs - use efficient nukes like Remote or Winter's Wildshock so you can time your casts of NFW or Horde to GoM as much as possible
    Staunch - once a week (for those of us who raid 2-3 days a week consecutively) or in a dire raid-saving situation

    Splinter of Potency (15% Spec Evoc) - NFW is our most important spell, this aug saves ~2% mana on every cast (the calculation is something like 20 spec points per 1% mana saved - the aug adds up to 45 points)
    Bixie Summoner's Stone (15% Spec Conjuration) - Horde and Sunshock are both conjuration and should be cast constantly
    Sacred Prayer Shawl of the Duke - Chance to return mana off every cast

    I'm always meleeing as much as I can - running 2hander for Arms of Holy Wrath VII and Sympathetic Healing Burst VII for maximum mana return.

    Mount in outdoor zones.
    The mana abilities of other players have also been mentioned, but just have to stay on top of asking for them.

    I definitely agree that something needs to be done to increase our recovery ability. Death is extremely rough on us, and our ability to recover is way below that of other classes. I'd love to see this addressed in the next expansion.
  17. Szilent Augur

    does this one stack with wolf? banner/fire and potion don't
  18. talayen New Member

    Good question - as far as I can tell it does, though I can't find anything specific in my logs to say for sure.
  19. Szilent Augur

    shouldn't need logs, the mana cost in the spell info window changes to reflect your current buffs. Can get a spell info window up for "raw", click wolf & get another info window to show that pres, then click shawl & check again
  20. talayen New Member

    Ah k, didn't realize CoM actually gave a different mana cost in the spell window.

    According to that method it does not stack with Wolf. Bummer.