Lockjaw Rotation Updated - 8/15/15

Just out of sheer curiosity...why do you not want to join a guild? I know there are a ton of reasons not to I guess; but I mean what is your personal stance on joining a team of like-minded individuals, working together consistently, and making big bad guys go boom as expansions release? Please note I am not asking in a jarring way, I am just honestly interested.

I am sure Croak will clarify that we are not one and the same. This idea was based in the LJ and sky thread originally, which was merged w/ the instancing planes thread, for some strange reason. At the time, I did not know what happened so I continued the conversation here.

I would council you on making assumptions but I do not think it will do any good.

Zhutuak - how does your proposal for isles 1-4 ffh not result in one boxer vs an entire guild trying to progress through Sky?

Also, there are conservatively 500+ members in the current rotation guilds going through Sky, please explain how the unguided are the unrepresented majority? If that's really true something in the form of a petition with actual characters from the server would be great.

Also, sky and other classic content should all go ffa with Kunark, maybe Rahe fire is a better solution for those wishing it?

I have a different play style, a little bit more intense than most. Boxing by its nature requires more input, I get stuff done. Within a guild structure, I find there becomes unwarranted expectations, once you begin to do something it becomes expected. Your time typically no longer is your own, people`s expectations become whacked, drama ensues. I found many many years ago, here in eq, after having lead a guild for two years, that I was done with anything having to do with guilds.

I am just happier going about my own business, helping people when I choose to and not when i choose not to w/o anyone else`s expectations looming over me.

All reasonable viewpoints. I wasn't trying to bait you into something; just being that I love a guild atmosphere...I was curious how someone could be the polar opposite. I 5 box and don't group with many people unless I need some human interaction via pixels, so I can see where you're coming from. I'm guessing you run more toons than 5

You already have those rules in place, you simply ban them when it is proven they are doing such.

I do not know the exact number of actual accounts on the server but I am more than willing to bet there are more people not in rotation guilds then there currently are.

Content that can be downed by a single group should not be rotated by large guilds. Qualifying mobs, while if the rotation guilds choose to rotate them among themselves, should not be rotated to the general public who have had no say or representation.

My proposal allows an additional option for anyone to participate in the content, even choosing to work with the rotation guilds in any manner seen fit to join the rotation.

Some of us do not plan to, nor do we plan to join a guild. We can kill this content yet are being held back for really no good reason. I would like to kill this content on my time, not yours w/ the understanding that I will not be harassed in the process, thanks.

Originally three back in 2001-2004. When I started playing again in 2014, someone pointed out to me I may want to add dps. I rolled a wiz on live for my fourth but chose druid for tlp for back up heals and tracking to go along w/ the dps.

I am not trying to provoke others, I am trying to point out the hypocrisy I see and propose something (which can be modified and made better) for everyone else that is not involved in the rotation. The rotation will always be there should we choose to join it, we should not be pigeon holed into it.

This stance and proposal again is just for sky including KoS qualifying npc. Everything after that I agree should be rotated.

However in the same breath;I do have to state my case as to why having 72+ unaffiliated people contesting mobs against the raid force I am currently building... I also do not care for 100+ in raids... I like cohesiveness and execution with a little smaller force. I like to know who I am raiding with, without a chunk of the raid slipping through the cracks because they aren't necessarily held accountable. Anyways, if I run 45 toons on my raid day, it would be a complete disadvantage to have 72 or more unguilded storm the zone and out-dps my team.

I built this team on the basis that has been agreed by DBG of rotations and having exclusive rights to said boss/island. The entire structure of my guild would be thrown out the window due to being out man-powered because I choose to rely more on individual execution with lower numbers. Just wanted to state my case; as I respect your opinions, as I just hope this maybe sways your mind even a little bit.

Hrmm, Vox and Naggy can likely be downed by a single group. The group would need to be a good one, with either 5 well geared mages + a bard / enchanter, or 6 mages, but it is certainly possible.

The number of people that could potentially kill something isn't what defines it as a rotation target. The rotation targets, for the most part, are targets that the big guilds will mobilize, and dps race, to kill.

There are a few non-rotation mobs that people may mobilize for (Yael, P'tasa, etc.), but those tend to spawn in less than 1 day, and aren't worth fighting over.

You are only potentially losing out the first four isles of Sky, you have everything else. Meanwhile if it means that much to you, bring more then the open raid or even qualifying guild raid of 72 and engage first or move to the next isle.

We are not talking about end game raid ffa, we are talking about content that many groups will be able to do to further progress their character as well as help smaller guilds expedite their qualifying by giving them an additional opportunities to gear and qualify.

We have all put work in, some more then others, I respect that. However the content itself lends to the fact that more people could and should be enjoying it. Simple solution previously used, increase spawn timers.

Again, i see your point of frustration...but open raid could easily target GitF because we are smaller and essentially lock us out of islands 1-4, which we only will have once every 2 weeks...we all need the loot too. Open raid would have an option to raid it every day. How does that work? Why would we expect anyone to not drop their tag and just raid everyday until they got their share, then joined a guild and rinsed and repeated with alts?

In my proposal, once anyone qualifies under ffa rules or current rules, Naggy and Vox would become ffa to them. Each progressive tier that is rotated would become open to those below you on the food chain, as they become qualified. That does not say rotation guilds and qualifying guilds (groups/boxers) could not work something out so there is no competition, one does not preclude the other.

It's basically like open raid has all the benefits of a guild, but also gets rogue perks on top of it

It is possible that and open raid or even qualifying guild group could attempt to go every day to get what they need faster, be it qualifying or just plain old drops.

My question to you is, is that really happening now? Are all the rotation guilds killing the isle bosses 24/7 or is there a 24 hour window in play? It seems to me not everyone that is currently in the rotation kills stuff 24/7 so I do not see it playing out that all of a sudden we will see people targeting your smaller guild specifically, especially if there is a rule against in place to begin with.

See you guys are effectively locking out alot of people as it is now, if you get locked out, so what? At least other people go to enjoy the content too.

No not really because you are creating an example that may or may not ever happen. You agreed to the rotation, others have not. You have closed off content in the form of a rotation for content that should not be rotated as it does not require massive amounts of people to defeat, no matter what the con may say.

I personally have no intention of living in sky or running an open raid there 24/7, if I did I would be doing it with hate and fear and progressing an open raid that way. I may however bring along some friends or random people along who have not experienced it for a chance at loot and fun.

The 24 hour window is so guilds can do it when they're available. With your proposal, the US primetime slot (that several of these guilds raid in exclusively) suddenly becomes inaccessible to the rotation guilds because somebody else is going up there first. "Go up earlier?" Some guilds have heavy Pacific rolls, and can't get up there in time to compete with an Eastern-time Open raid. The rotation right now discourages that situation; the guild whose turn it is can go up and know that, unless someone broke the rotation, the mobs they need will be there.

We can't just say "oh, mornings are FFA" because some guilds can only raid in their primetime (see: Asian, Australian, or European guilds). The window exists so that there is access.

Just seems way too unorganized to benefit anyone but those refusing to have a tag above their names. I personally know when we have Sky, you can message me anytime and I'll happily give you my day 5 hours before we go, provided its not a weekend. I'm sure most of the guilds would oblige as well. Just don't hit any trigger mobs. Of course I am not a voice of the server, but that's my input

And the window and process that your are using restricts access to everyone else not on the rotation. We have time concerns too and do not need to have you dictating when we can or can not do group content or even very small multi group content.

Again to address this, we ask for increased spawn times, that way the content is up for everyone. Simply increase spawn timers on anything up to isle five to guarantee spawns will be there or to flood the market to discourage people from trying to farm it for cash. It will not be valuable if it is common.

It is not unorganized, it is rather simple and quite frankly an interesting blend of ffa and rotation that has not been tried yet. You are going to get less and less sky spawns as people qualify, it is inevitable. This proposal simply adds an alternative way to qualify and to satisfy all the concerns, simply increase spawn timers on the first four isles.

Current FFA bosses get socked on a somewhat irregular basis but it does happen. There is nothing to prevent this which is why socks and counter-socks occur among the top guilds during prime time hours. Your suggested FFA would result in perma socking of these isles 1-4 of Sky. I don't understand what rules you think are in place that would prevent this socking from occuring.....

Arbitrarily making a statement does not make it true or factual. I quick run through commonlands or the planes would show that the vast majority of people are guilded. In fact, at lvl 50 I would propose that being guilded is even more prevalent and that almost all of those interested in doing Sky are already in guilds making the pool of unguilded people wishing to do Sky even smaller. If you want to go by the accounts on the boards, there have been 3 boxers arguing for Sky FFA(you, croak, snar(or are yall all really one box?)) vs. 20+ retorts. If there was such an outcry by the unguilded, where are the rest of this majority clamoring for this opportunity?

First of all, this is eq and one of the beauties of this game when it was launched was it forced community and for people to play together. Part of the reason I came back to everquest is because other games like wow now feel so lonely without an real need for other people. If you feel that is how you like to play, that's great but it's not how this game was originally designed. If you don't like having to answer to other people then I suggest wow or launching your own .

Second, I would come full circle and say that FFA should happen and the current state of forced rotation and everyone threatening everyone else with bans from DBG is stupid. It feels like every thread on these topics devolves into some sort of standoff between two sides swearing that DBG is going to take their side instead of any real meaningful conversations. I honestly think it would be fantastic if a pickup group went out and downed a raid boss or substantial amounts of Sky one day. Yes, maybe DBG could suspend them for a three days or a week(think MM leadership was initially given 7 days and members just 3 days) or DBG could take a step back and honestly re-evaluate how stupid this situation has become.

Zhutuak, I appreciate what you are trying to do and are fighting for and at the core I think I agree with you in many aspects, I just think some of the ideas here are ill conceived and not properly presented. I hope you understand I'm not trying to attack you personally and wish you the best.