Lockjaw Rotation Updated - 8/15/15

I'm trying to stay out of this as much as i can, and i remember that we agreed that it would be revisited at the end of the rotation if deemed necessary, EVEN WHY whe knew we would have a big influx from RF.

I'm as fair as fair can be, I stood by your side when you came to our mumble to speak that Yukan did not want to be grandfathered on the Efreeti rotation, and you claimed their rotation spot! Instead of extending AD some courtesy as we would have done. Faceless cares ?

Again, i hate to point fingers and be disrespectful, but playing victim here won't work.

Actually all this fingers being pointed everywhere just gives the server a terrible name. Hold it for the meeting. Be respectful and and accept what comes out of it like big boys, we do not know the results yet, why the fuss? If you guys want even call a gm to mediate the meeting. But stop that non-sense on the forums.

Either I, or Qflexx, spoke with members from the majority of the rotation guilds, and all have changes they would like to see.

If we discuss it, and end up deciding to keep the rotation the same, then that is what will happen. If the majority wants to change it, then that is what will happen. It will all be decided democratically, as we agreed upon in the original rotation document.

So people camping out at a raid target that is in window is socking? Binding at a raid target is socking? If somebody else starts socking a mob while it's window then nobody else is allowed to respond in kind for an FFA mob?.

I don't think you know what socking actually is so i'll explain it to you. Socking is having a raid capable force sitting at a raid target fully buffed and doing afk checks regularly before that raid target spawns.

Now, if people binding in a certain spot or logging out in a certain spot to be ready for a batphone ( they do have lives and can't sit in game all day and when the mob is FFA speed is of the essence ) that is not socking.

If people go to a zone such as hate or fear and are actively clearing mobs for armor drops that is not socking. If they were sitting at inny sure. If fear was cleared then sure. Are you really suggesting that people don't enter a zone if a mob is in FFA status? Are you really suggesting that if a guild does sock a target that every other guild should not be able to respond in kind on an FFA target?

There is no spin here other than you are trying to spin it because your mobilize slowly, you buff slowly, and therefore you lose raid targets. Maybe a little preperation and dedication to wanting to kill the raid targets would give you a better chance. Blaming others for your own faults and lack of preparation is pretty bad.

There are many topics of discussion to be held. For one, we've got at least 4 new guilds since the last meeting to be introduced. Sky days need to be determined, as many guilds have killed the Spiroc Lord. You have a proposal for a rotation that you'd like to be discussed, as do I. There are imminent changes this upcoming patch to the difficulty of mobs, across the board.

Remember, communication is key. The only reason why you would try to not have a meeting or mitigate the talks in any way is to keep the status quo, which cannot continue. Why wouldn't you want to discuss all these topics and make sure everyone is on the same page?

Before my opinion is given, I do want to state that I am in FI because my play time allows for it. Despite what many of you think, the majority of us do have lives, families, and are successful and most certainly do not have toilets for chairs. What you call 'poop socking' is typically us worker bee's running too or going AFK at or near the next FFA target and go back to work/life and wait for the batphone to be sent. I'm sorry if your schedule does not allow you to be available for <20 minutes on a whim and the proposal that Darth is giving suits both sides of the argument.

Coming from Ragefire, I would of absolutely killed for Darth's proposal for many different reasons. Despite my schedule allowing it, I refused to join TL because they took 100% of everything and that is simply unfair to the community. Our guild (ROI) had the numbers to take down all of the content but we simply could not out race or out DPS TL outside of prime time. I would of welcomed Darth's proposal because it would of allowed us to kill all content and we would of been rewarded for the amount of time and effort we are putting into the game. Being able to do Cazic Thule, Inorruuk, Nagafen, and Lady Vox once a week or so without interruption during prime time is very fair.

If you want more than that, than you need to switch to the FFA rotation and compete. Both MM and AD have well over 100 members (AD brought 160+ to Nagafen) and we've seen the number of mage/wizard boxes ya'll have. With a little bit of organization or perhaps the 'hardcore' from each split off into a new guild you guys could easily form a strong 72 to give Faceless a run for their money.

The simple fact is that some of the middle tier guilds (MM specifically) are looking for self entitlement and equality when it doesn't exist. You simply do not deserve the same amount of content/loot as the guild willing to be organized 24/7 and compete for everything. It's a matter of time & effort and you're willing to put less in so you get less and that is 100% OKAY! We experience this in all phases of life everyday. The better Football player makes more, your more educated boss makes more, the better looking gym rat guy has a hotter wife/girlfiend etc.

Trust me, coming from Ragefire and playing with TL - Faceless has been more than fair to any guilds wanting to kill all raid content. This isn't Faceless giving handouts but simply realizing that everyone coming back to play EQ deserves to see all content and be rewarded for the effort they are willing to put forth. Yes, FI could potentially see more loot (or the same as now) this way barring competition but shouldn't their extra effort be rewarded? Challenge them if you want more! It only takes 72 and we know AD/MM can field it!

So if another guild brings a "modest" (haha I see what you did) force to sock...we're supposed to not do that same?

I agree, that's why we have rotation days where you just need to track, and get 2 hours to get the kill.

That is a good idea Greymere, and one that was proposed in the original rotation meetings. We opted to instead make it so that meetings would only happen if people called for them, but we may need to revisit it. Would be easier to just have regular meetings, change what is needed (or not), and avoid the argument over whether we should have any meeting at all.

Hmm so wait 4 of the 6(maybe 7) have no problem with current rotation? Why is there a meeting then? Why is dima asking people to come up with other rotations? Sounds like Dima(and his guild) and maybe someone else, don't like current rotation and will try to use the opportunity to wrangle as many concessions they can out of the meeting, because they know they don't have the majority to change it completely.

Let me correct you friend.

There is ONE guild that has managed to get onto the rotation.

There is ONE guild are two guilds that have managed to qualify for a Sky day.

My proposal was written because you asked me to write one. Not because I want a new one.

You called for this meeting BEFORE any patch changes were released.

The new guilds you speak of haven't attempted a single Gatekeeper.

No the reason I don't think we need this meeting is because there is not a majority of guilds wanting to change it as far as I know. So if we're meeting without a majority then someone is breaking the rules of the rotation.

And, if you're not going to recognize the rules we all already agreed to, why should I believe you'll recognize new rules?

That's why you have a rotation? No competition for those kills. FFA is different. And if one guild starts socking others have to respond or you just forfeit that mob.

AD has initiated quite a few socks, which just prompts others to respond or you will not compete. Which is fine, they are FFA for a reason. Attaching silly rules to FFA means they are no longer ffa.

You do realize that this "middle tier" guild has killed every buffed raid mob in the game without petwalling (except Efreeti cycle and Queen Bee...we aren't willing to bring 120+ bodies to throw at making that happen when there is no reason to do so) right?

You also realize that we were the first on either server to kill the buffed Eye of Veeshan, and killed the buffed Queen Bee with the smallest raid force of any guild thus far (63 characters total), correct?

Try to downplay us if you want, but the issue isn't that we CAN'T contest you. It is that we are not willing to sit on a mob's spawn all day, hoping for it to spawn, so both of our guilds can zerg swarm it down in 2 minutes.

We are all for competition, but that isn't being competitive. I come from Veeshan originally. Played there from 1999-2003. Socking existed, even back when I played. However, the only guilds that did it were the third tier guilds. The guilds that were unable to get kills unless they sat on a spawn, or bound at it, and were able to instantly jump on it when it popped.

The first tier guild(s) (Fires of Heaven and the CD/COE duo), and second tier guilds (too many to mention) never did that. They kept trackers around, and left their normal groups, mobilized, and raced to be "first in force".

Socking made me, and many people I know, quit playing on Fippy. I'd rather not go through it again...it is just not healthy for the server. We will see if others agree.

Actually, some of the other rotation guilds would like to completely remove FFA altogether. It is certainly possible that we could end up just removing FFA for the moment. We will see how it goes.

Wrong. Let me correct YOU, my friend.

There have been two guilds that have qualified for a sky day. Both Magicus and Peace have killed the Spiroc Lord.

From my understanding, our friends that have joined the server are actively pursuing or planning to pursue the gatekeepers.

If any other guildleader is against this meeting, I would like them to post here, independently, instead of hearsay from you.

This is exactly why we need to have a meeting. Your facts are skewed.

What's the concern? If there's a majority consensus, there won't be any issues.

I specifically uphold the rotation vote and agreement by removing AD from the Noble cycle. You all could have voted him in to, I didn't care one or another. The Guild Leader specifically said he didn't want it. So to accuse me of anything is just an attack and a way to garner some sympathy. "Oh look Darth is bad person he upheld the agreement."

We did agree that we would revisit it, if a majority wanted to.

You do not have a majority.

Yet we are revisiting it.

I've been very receptive to working things out with every guild. Remember that CT where you and I agreed to not contest one another on a couple CT FFAs?

Did I not stay true to my word?

You have a rotation spot. If you want more kills, faster kill, more loot etc, our current rotation has a way for you to do that. Play the game and do it, don't just run to the forums and beg DBG to hand you more.

I thought you were better than this Qflexx, I expect this from some people, but not you.

I am disappoint son.

Faceless "trying to" care </3

The one thing that has yet to be said is what is wrong with the status guo?

My facts are not skewed Apparently only you knew about the second sky day guild qualifying. Great for them, let's add them. I'll also add if they qualified it was likely on my SKY day as I have given most of them up to other guilds.

Man the Lawyer and double talk going on in here is hilarious.

It's like reading some interrogator go to work who wants you to think he is your friend to get all your secrets.

I haven't seen MM even attempt to mobilize for an FFA target in about a week now. I think you still don't know what socking is. Maybe start showing up and you have a beef but you aren't even showing up. How do I know? Because i'm at almost every single FFA raid. There is no socking being done. You are trying to blame your own ineptitude on others. You know how I personally get to a raid target faster than others? I have a wizard box. I can be anywhere in a matter of seconds. I have potions that port me to EF for vox. I have invis to get me past everything but giants in sol b.

If you want competition then you have to show up first. Where were you for CT this morning? How about Vox? Where were you yesterday? Did you have somebody ( it only takes a single person ) watching AD fail on Inny with 70+ people for two hours pushing inny into the FFA status? Where were you for that? You want competition but you don't even show up to compete.

Your claims of FI socking targets are false. Your claim of being able to compete is false. Your claim of wanting to compete is false. You are making claims with nothing to back them up.

You are slow to mobilize, you are slow to prep, you fail at killing raid targets because of your own faults. These aren't others faults. You should look at your own guild if you want to see why you are failing to kill FFA targets.

Honestly, I'm done here. We will discuss it at the meeting, and all of this shows exactly why we need to meet (and likely should go to a set schedule for meetings, rather than just when they are called for).

You took it the wrong way, that's why i hate forums. I'm not saying you are a bad person, but that day you could have been a better person. I wanted to say that I (QFLEX) would have handled it other way. That's my point of view, and if you gonna think less of me because i express my opinion, there's nothing i can do.

Yes we do, and i can provide the stance of the guilds if need be, given by their leaders to me yesterday. Some are not about the rotation, some are. But i'd prefer for them to show up and talk by themself, even why if we do not have the majority, they won't show up right?

One CT ! And yes you stood tall! I'm the kind of guy that will congratulate you when you do something good and that will also criticise if you do something wrong (and i expect people to do the same to me)
for sake i do the same with dima all the time!

I'm 110% against comming to the forums. Did you read my post correctly? this forum wont solve ANYTHING, the meeting will, and it's not only about the rotation as i quoted above.

I already wrote my stance on that on the first answer.

I'm not sure why your chain of command didn't inform you of it, as several of them were in the Leaders channel actively talking when it happened and was announced.

I'm not holding it against you, the facts you provided here were wrong. We have pressing matters to deal with, and the most conducive way to do that is with a sit.