Lockjaw Rotation Updated - 8/15/15

Awesome, glad to hear guys!

Gratz! very good job!

I'd like to volunteer to be the neutral arbitrator.

My skill and knowledge are legendary.

I'm known for my kindness and ability to be fair.

Finally I'm qualified because I dislike both sides equally

will message you ingame when we require your services frenzic

would like to personally thank you for offering us your services.

Oh god, the blind leading the blind.

Woh woh! Did you just say you like consistency. This statement coming only hours after siding with the people who clearly broke rules in the rotation that all the guild leaders agreed to and signed off on?
Man you are being very inconsistent here.

The Smooth issue is a salty issue I hear. In the old rotation Smooth would be in raids with MM and take down targets. The next rotation mob that was not MM Smooth would try to engage other guild's targets not wearing any guild tags. He was also trying to get into the rotation by himself since he can solo down Vox and Nag but others fought it. Thirdly he would also go up to sky on other people's days solo plus went on MM days grouped WITH MM.
When Tulkas was around, that was a very shady individual and now that I hear MM awarded his 10 mages and 2 wizards a CoF I just LOL'd (my instinct tells me this isn't true but if it is, I am surprised that guild is still together). That would have been the second CoF he sold on the server. The first one sold for 40 Krono I heard. Tulkas was one of those individuals that would just roll into whatever camp he wanted and do a hostile takeover.

If these kinds of individuals are invited into a guild, it is a guild I wouldn't give a whole lot of respect to and I am impressed that they have been able to work themselves into the rotation in the first place.

Pretty shady stuff so now when Smooth goes and helps MM out, I can understand why there is a big stink thrown. Plus the fact they had more than just him there isn't very helpful to their situation.

The situation I am reading about definitely broke the rotation.

I will say though, I see it more as they are putting their foot down to stomp the shenanigans as they happen especially since the shenanigans aren't a new thing in this rotation but the shenanigans weren't enforceable by GMs before now.

Please, Pinto, let it go. Everyone involved with our post-rotation negotiation raids are members of MM. The guild GM who claimed we were in violation has since withdrawn his claim, as the issue was clarified and resolved in game.

Stop posting untrue statements about events, individuals, and guilds...you are way off on basically everything you mentioned.

You look a bit lonely today. You should pay a visit.

It's nice to have so many fans.

Because there was absolutely no mitigating factors involved.

And regardless, the "guild assistance/unguilded" rule was designed to stop say my guild can't handle Vox today - from still using our window protections and calling another guild to help us finish her off. It's not to prevent us from say we're down two clerics from what we need and we've got two clerics in our applicant channel from allowing them to tag along. [Or say we do an applicant guild - or say Vvadrin who tags his alts in <Vvadrin> brings an alt to assist, etc]

It's obvious how it was meant - it's not a "IF/THEN" line in a computer program - humans can logic things out. Same way 99% of cops won't ticket you if they pull you over for speeding and see that you're running your wife to the hospital pregnant, etc.

I'm consistent to believing the SPIRIT OF RULES rather than the absolute phrasing - there's no lack of intellectual inconsistency here, sir. [Same way I still believe in PNP, First in Force, and not KSing even though they're no longer enforced barring this rotation stuff being recently added...]

I had dropped it already. Almost forgot I posted the thread but since you bring it up and say that the statements are untrue, go ahead and tell the truth. Here let me list things out to make it easier.

Before the rotation Smooth was raiding with MM but also trying to contest non-FFA targets when not with MM including Vox and Sky. You can't argue this because it did happen.

Tulkas was in the guild and had sold a CoF for a whole lot of Korno. I said I didn't know if MM awarded him a CoF (which would be his second CoF on the server) also so if you want to contest if he did or didn't go right ahead because I clearly stated that the CoF comment was from a previous post in this thread that I had no idea about.

Tulkas rolled into camps just because he wanted them and stole them in a very hostel fashion because he was a complete to plenty of people outside of MM.

MM has recruited some shady fellows on this server already have they not? The above 3 situations are well known on the server and there is no denying that they are very shady. You replying to my post acting like the claims I made are completely false when they are not and they are well known situations just makes me reply more. Maybe it would have been better for you to post why you thought some of my statements were false because maybe minor unimportant details might not be right like the 40 Krono for the first CoF because I was just told that but could have been wrong.

Yes the situation is resolved in a way that satisfies your guilds but the fact that there was a situation 15 hours after the agreement was signed shows a lot of disrespect to all guild leaders that spend what I heard was a substantial amount of time setting this rotation up.
Hopefully this is not a reoccurring thing.

Yup that is my thoughts exactly. I absolutely don't mind going and asking for another cleric or 2 but calling in an unguided (when convenient) 18 boxer that clearly stated he wanted a rotation spot for himself (about a week or so ago) is the exact same thing as calling in another guild because you can't take the target down yourself. Just as a note, I heard more than just the Smooth crew were non MM tagged there but I don't know anything about their situation and I am guessing most were just dummy guilds for boxers that are really mains in MM anyways.
Anyways the rule was set up to prevent exactly what happened there and that is why there was so much of a rift created when the issue arose.

Now the situation is resolved because the necessary people are tagged as MM members and I think that is great! I am glad that everything could be resolved within the guilds. That means the rules put in place to prevent GM intervention are working! (although there should have never been a situation only 15 hours after an agreement was reached)

Smooth was tagged as MM before the "incident". The rollbacks caused a bug, which reverted guild tags, but did not update the roster. He was showing up inside of MM's guild roster, but his tag did not match. The bug didn't allow him to be removed and re-added, to fix the tag.

Long story short: He is an official member of MM, and has been for a few days.

Yes, these guilds consisted of alts to MM mains. Most were affected by the same bug mentioned above. All dummy guilds were absorbed into MM before the rollback, or are being absorbed in as they log in and are made aware of the new rules.

The ones that have not are controlled by members that have not been online lately. Tulkas is one example of this, as he has been MIA for weeks.

I was part of the negotiations that resulted in the creation of this rule, and this situation absolutely was not the point of it. The point was to keep a few things from happening:

1. Keep guilds from splintering into.multiple guilds, requesting multiple spots in the rotation, then assisting one another to kill their rotation mobs.

2. Protect against non-rotation guilds from assisting one guild with rotation targets, then interefering with other rotation guilds targets / sky days.

Now, that second point absolutely was directed at Smooth. Previously he was killing mobs in sky on non-MM days, without officially joining us, but also raiding with us. He didn't do so maliciously, and had actually been speaking with the GMs of other guilds to try to prevent interfering with guild raids, but there were a few incidents where issues arose.

He was given the choice of joining MM or being his own raid force, and he chose to join us. That was the best course of action for the server. Otherwise, he certainly could field a force large enough to demand a spot in the rotation, and handle the majority of targets.

No other alt guild meet these criteria, as their main characters were already official MM, and they did not have the number, nor the will, to tackle raid targets on their own. Folding them into MM is just a formality.

Fair enough, that is a much better reply and the best explanation I have seen so far. Glad to see you guys were able to work something out with Smooth that is a very mutually beneficial guild merger.

Hopefully you see where the confusion was considering the (all be it short) history given Smooth's past run-ins with the rotations. This is the first time I have heard of this bug where you can't leave a guild caused by a rollback but I wouldn't put it past EQ. Amazing response time form the GMs to fix the issue too. Good thing for these new guides; they are some speed freaks on the keyboards!

Who should I write out the autograph to? You bitter over something, sis?

MM didn't even start recruiting (that includes Tulkas) until much after he killed Nagafen. He won the encounter, and the got the spoils.

To clarify on Smooth, he was an independent force until recently, whom we've teamed up with on certain occasions when it was mutually beneficial to us. He's actually even won DPS races against Modest Man before. In no way have we directed him to grief other guilds, to the contrary, we've talked and acted as a mediator between him and the other guilds numerous times, as the other guilds can attest to.

For the Faceless members and leadership actively posting here, If you want to talk about matters in the past, let's talk about your officers training. Let's talk about the specific quotes your leaders have made. Let's take a look at a video where your founder tried to pull Nagafen on top of us. Let's take a look at how you've been treating other guilds. There's actually quite a few more videos and references I can dig up if any of you want to play ball. Any day.

The fact of the matter is, some of you are threatened by our presence, even though we've got a fraction of your mains. You've questioned why we were on the server, and encouraged us to move to Ragefire. You don't want to lose, that's why you've been encouraged to roll wizards and mages, with offers of Krono by your founder to do so.

There's nothing wrong with having ambitions, you've got to do what you've got to do to win. Great guilds don't happen overnight. I'm sure with enough dedication, you'll do just fine. We'll be around, and we'll be having a good time. I'm sure you'll be just fine, especially under your upcoming merger into Faceless Insanity.

From a leadership perspective, there should be a level of good faith put into what you've agreed on. To immediately shine the spotlight on such a trivial issue, potentially wasting DBG's time instead of consulting myself and the leaders channel, is a bad faith measure from Faceless. It certainly doesn't paint a good picture of the rotation or the server atmosphere. Hopefully, this will change in the future going forward, and the server turns into a healthier environment long term.

Best,

Gulfein
Modesty
modestman.club (under construction )

Threaten by MM.. doubtful.

Yup he got 1 CoF on his own for taking down Nag. The question was, did he get a second? I highly doubt he would be given a second but it would be interesting if he did! I just have doubts to the authenticity of that poster earlier in this thread saying MM awarded him one.

Yup and you guys were starting to see cracks in the rotation that required big discussions before he was officially tagged as MM. The fact that he wasn't tagged as MM after the new rotation agreement had went through was quite eye opening. It sounds like it was all a bug though so the guild leaders worked stuff out so no harm to foul.

OOoooOOOOOooOo I want to see!!! Why isn't this being posted on the forums! PM me or something I want to see this dirt
If you are talking about training bats or LDCs into Nag or goblins into Vox I am going to be VERY disappointed in you. This better be things like training King T in and a minimum of 6 fire giants or I am going to say it isn't real dirt.
I don't know if I would call a Naggy pull on top of a mage army a train more than a tactic to prevent pets from using the age old bug where they hit a dragon through a wall while avoiding the AOE damage the whole time. Tactics man!

I wish I was offered Kronos for Wizards and Mages. I know what class I would be! Why Wizards though? Mages are where the real moneyshot is at!!!
Man I could have got so many Krono on this double XP 2 days! XP is flying on my Druid!

Absolutely nothing wrong with Ambitions. Nothing at all. There is something wrong when your ambitions drive you to recruit the skum like Tulkas. I really have a dislike for Tulkas because he steamrolled over me several times and therefore I have no respect for you for recruiting a known trashbag like that. I was so happy when he started his suspensions.

Given the past that you had mentioned in your response, I would venture to say, having this guy untagged was not a trivial issue. Maybe he was untagged because of some very convent bug or maybe there were bigger issues. Who cares really, the issue is resolved...for now.

A taker! Macro, I assume you're still one of the recruiters from Faceless, and represent them administratively - not to mention your aspiring EQ rapping career, so I'll entertain you with a response.

You've stated to your leadership that you had FRAPS of our members "warping" on Plane of Hate, during our last Innoruuk run. Care to follow up with that FRAPS? or was that.. an empty threat?

I don't post every single issue I've ran into with Faceless here on the forums. If I did, I would have a lot more posts. As leaders, there are correct avenues to pursue matters, such as communicating among each other. Since you're curious, check your PMs soon

I have the clips. Putting up as we speak. Also just the cleric class lead

If you are sending these clips via PM, I would like to see them as well.

does anyone else see the irony of someone whose name is literally "Macro Questing" talking about others warping?

not saying he doesnt have videos, but i had thought warping was easy to detect now and anyone doin it would be caught pretty quick.