Lockjaw rotation shattered by Faceless - Full FFA time begins?

what? someones reputation makes it impossible for any action they take to have good intentions? or are you simply asking why someone would be defending someone that they already dislike? the answer to that would usually be that they see a greater wrongdoing than what the person they are defending has done in the past.

CoS supports the rotation and voted yes on the proposal.

MM had grievance with FI and they handled it in the wrong way. I believe MM had other options available to them. I firmly believe a resolution could have been reached diplomatically.

The fact that they made no attempt to follow one of those options before going rogue lost them my support.

If they had attacked an FI target, I would have remained neutral. I specifically stated to Zadie, I would not have cared if MM had attacked a FI target. However, they attacked and killed a PoF rotation target while PoF was not in prime time.

The proposal presented at the meeting allows a path to reenter the rotation, it is not unreasonable. It is minimal punishment that sends a clear message to any other guild that may consider breaking rotation in the future.

During the course of the meeting, my access to the LJ rotation spreadsheet was removed. I would like to know who removed this access.

I would also like to add a comment on our stance with FFA.

FFA day does not equal FI day. At this moment in time, FI is completely dominating FFA. This can easily change at any given moment in time. New guilds form and old guilds merge. With the release of the new No-Box server, the guild landscape on Lockjaw is going to drastically change.

The only real debate here is the degree of FFA vs fixed rotation levels.

Let me take a crack at predicting the future here.

"No box" launches with instanced classic raids. After this point RF and LJ go the route of having maybe 2 guilds per server fighting each other and being all epeeny. Everyone else is sick of this in 2015 and goes to instanced content and if the people that give a about the drama can keep RF and LJ profitable then perhaps they will stay they way they are, but more likely they will be instanced a month or so after no box launches, as Jain predicted.

EDIT: My point is all this drama is a distraction until Daybreak can get instances in and they know it and any raider with a brain knows it.

You are quite right, it is FFA, MM included... but you are too stubborn to realize the solution staring you in the face.
Most of the people, maybe all of them that might threaten raid targets would respect a fair rotation, You might still get a few people on the early islands in Sky, but most of the larger non-rotation guilds are full of very reasonable nice people.

Faceless aren't going to protect you 24/7 and hand out all the loot.

Dead Horse / Dead Game / Dead Heads.

So this whole thing is really about just totally championing for the people right? MM for the server!

Ya, ok.. lmfao. You guys couldn't get any of the rotation guilds to back you, so now you will speak for the silent majority! Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses, MM is here to fight for your rights to loot!

Had MM been in that meeting and they would have said the only change is no "server day" you guys wouldn't have said a word.

To be honest, I dont give a either way at this point. When this all started, I basically decided I have better to do in life then compete for pixels at 3am. Congrats, you elite guys win.

Two things here.

First, Faceless made their intentions known over 3 days before stealing MM's mob. Everybody knew about this, and nobody wanted any part in resolving it, including other guilds.


Second, neutral is a funny word. You're essentially saying, "I'll watch you get bullied, but I don't want to get involved. I'm neutral!" Then, the moment you're at risk of losing mobs, you pick the side you feel is safest for you. I can't feel sorry for guilds like this. It's a spineless way to act.

How many people have signed this reply from the server?

Well first, I don't think anyone who dislikes MM is defending them. I think MM is defending themselves. I am also saying that they are not doing this with good intentions. They are doing it purely for vendetta and personal gain. They aren't interested in what others want, only what they want. Show me evidence to the contrary of that?

Actually, we tried to discuss it beforehand, and were told by FI that they had no interest in anything we had to say. That is actually the reason we were given for being left out of the rotation meeting as well.

We were content with the rotation before, and really had no intention of doing much more than just killing our rotation mobs, and MAYBE contesting a FFA mob from time to time. However, FI forced our hand by using force and threats to try to change the rules

Pretty sure this thread can be locked now. It's just 14 pages of people repeating themselves over and over.

9/10 guilds on the rotation (excluding MM) agreed to levy fines on MM to rejoin the rotation.
MM denied and gave their own list of demands for them to rejoin the rotation.
<people laughed, MM continued to defend/deflect>

So the rotation will continue with all of the guilds minus MM. If MM tries to take any content, FI and the server will be there to deny.

That about sums it up, yes?

Maybe you should leave summaries to people who have reading comprehension? Anyone who actually read the chat logs has a good idea of what happened. You on the other hand... whoosh.

FI stole from MM.

Everyone said, "Eh, doesn't affect us."

MM said fine, if the rotation is no longer in effect, FFA.

Everyone said, "Whoa, that affects us!"

Its ironic that MM got together with other guilds to get the rotation to have less FFA says, and because the rotation was enforced, FI had to go along with it even though they didn't want that change. Now MM doesn't want a change and suddenly its a different story.

uhhhh - did you even read my post? You just posted several items that I never even talked about in my post. So who has the reading comprehension problem?

Please allow me to break it down for you...
1.) "Pretty sure this thread can be locked now. It's just 14 pages of people repeating themselves over and over." FACT, people aren't changing anyones opinions and they just keep repeating themselves over and over, including yourself.

2.) "9/10 guilds on the rotation (excluding MM) agreed to levy fines on MM to rejoin the rotation." FACT, the list of demands is in this thread on page 1.

3.) "MM denied and gave their own list of demands for them to rejoin the rotation." FACT, also in this thread on page 2 I believe.

4.) "<people laughed, MM continued to defend/deflect>" FACT. 9/10 guilds on the rotation agree with the levied fines and believe MM is in the wrong. MM members continue to defend themselves and deflect attention to FI being the root cause.

5.) "So the rotation will continue with all of the guilds minus MM. If MM tries to take any content, FI and the server will be there to deny." FACT. The rotation is still continuing minus MM and it has been stated that MM will be blocked from all content should they try to interfere with the rotation.

Now let's discuss my supposed lack of reading comprehension skills that you pointed out.
6.) "FI stole from MM." I did not mention anything about who stole what from who. I pointed out that 9/10 of the guilds levied fines against MM and MM had their own list of demands. Regardless of who stole what from who, this is the state that we are in currently.

7.) "Everyone said, "Eh, doesn't affect us." Again, I didn't mention this nor does it matter to the points i made.

8.) "MM said fine, if the rotation is no longer in effect, FFA." I identified this in item #3 and #5 above. MM is no longer a part of the rotation, we get it. The server will defend all content from MM from this point forward.

9.) "Everyone said, "Whoa, that affects us!" Again, I didn't mention this nor does it matter to the points I made.


...and who has the reading comprehension issue?

What I posted is where we are at today. People are just going back and forth stating their opinions over and over that are not going to change anyone's mind. At this point it doesn't matter that FI+others think MM is in the wrong or MM thinks FI+others is in the wrong nor does it have anything to do with my post.

The state that we are in currently is rotation stands minus MM and the server will deny MM from any raid content to make sure the rotation upholds.

Interesting...........................................

How many people read these absurd and toxic boards? Life (in and out of game) has little to do with these boards for 90% of actual players. That being said I agree with the Nuttmeg.

So without the backing of anyone but your alt guilds, what does MM plan on raiding? Hope your members are in for a rough ride. The only vote that MM got was from Midnight Phyre but I don't see them giving up their spot in the rotation to help you all.

I do not know Punchu, but he has hit the nail on the head. Smoke and mirrors. Sadly, people have fallen right into the magic trick DBG set out. What is the best way to bide more time then crazy drama from 2000? "We hope guilds can continue to work out differences and keep rotation talks going without our involvement."

Yeah, they couldn't work it out when you were there "helping" them. Why not be upset at the people that made all the terrible decisions then just threw their hands up in the air when they didn't want to deal with it anymore?

Incorrect. 8/10, since I'll count Peace of Formosa as voicing in the affirmative in this thread. Midnight Phyre did not agree to the punishment laid out for MM. Additionally, Midnight Phyre does not recognize the validity of the meeting where those punishments were constructed. The rotation rules require 24-hour notice before an emergency meeting, and that did not occur. When I was first invited to that meeting, I even commented about that to Zaide. And then I maintained that position in the meeting.

(This is the same complaint that exists about the meeting that was alleged to have made Efreeti an FFA mob.)

Your assumptions are incorrect.

I never viewed MM as a weakling getting kicked around on the playground.

It was my understanding that while MM has not contested many FFA, they still had the ability to do so. The kill credit goes to the guild with the highest DPS within a 72 character group.

I was not invited to the discussion about Efreeti by Darth. I assume it was due to our status on the rotation - we had not yet rotated into our first Nagafen and Vox kill.

I said in my post, I believe diplomatic intervention would have eventually resolved the issue. MM chose not to peruse that option.

Whether FI or MM was right or wrong in the matter, I was forced to make a decision about a guild going rogue and claiming the entire rotation was now obsolete vs a guild that had claimed one NPC on the rotation was FFA.

As it stand right now, the guilds collectively stated that MM should be allowed to return to the rotation with minimal penalties. Also, FI is not taking advantage of the situation to further their guild.

The irony of the entire situation is that I personally believe a compromise could have been reached over Efreeti - it still could be.